Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... Who is more valuable? Kirk Hinrich or Ben Gordon? I think Kirk is more valuable than BG because he is a playmaking, defensive-minded, and overall smart PG. He does get into foul trouble a bit for a PG, but he fits Skiles' style perfectly. BG shoots constantly for an undersized SG and should work on more aspects of his game. Who is more valuable of the two, I want to hear some Bulls fans' opinions.
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... Well Kirk gets in to foul trouble alot cause hes always defending the best backcourt player. which is a SG.But imma go with Kirk.. Even when kirk is having a bad game he does alot on the court. Gordon is only good for scoring. When he isnt doing that hes doing nothing out there. Cause he cant defend, isnt that good of a passer or dribbler.Im sure ALOT of bull fans would raither trade gordon then kirk
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... I think it's easily Kirk. He brings more to the table. He is one of the best defensive point guards in the game, he's a smart player, and he's a leader. Gordon is clearly the #1 option, but he doesn't have as much to offer. I never understood why Bulls fans rank/ranked Gordon as their best player. I personally think Deng and Hinrich are.
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... Hinrich is soo underrated and has been since he was drafted. I think a lot of people like Gordon because he makes amazing shots, but they never take a look at his defense. On top of that, he is streaky, and that is both bad sometimes and good other times for the Bulls. Hinrich is more valuable because he is consistent, plays smart, and his defense is solid.
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... It's hard to say. I think that the Bulls depend on Gordon's one strength (scoring) more then they do on anything that Hinrich offers. Simply because we have nobody that can be a scorer for us. While we can always plug in Griffin for defense, or Duhon to run the point, and so on.I don't agree that Gordon shoots constantly like somebody brought up. Even though his role on our team is to be the scorer, his shot totals aren't that high when you compare him to other players in the league. And truthfully I'd like to see him shoot more because he's good at it. His percentages are great all around (46%, 41%, 86%). Also, I think people make way too much out of him being a streaky player. In his first two years, yes. But last year he only scored in single digits 10 times all year, that's including his horrible start to the season; which is something that happens every year with him, it even was the case in college. It just takes him a couple of weeks to get going.Hinrich is, in my opinion, the best defensive guard in the league. Nobody in the NBA does a better job guarding everybody from Ford and Parker to Arenas, Kobe, Wade, Ray Allen, etc. I think that's his best asset to our team. And I think without a guy like Hinrich, Gordon would have a tougher time out there because he can't guard his own position. So having Kirk in there with him allows him to guard the PG position, while Hinrich takes the bigger guards.But I think Deng is our best player. And when you consider that he just turned 22 during the playoffs; it will probably stay that way. Gordon is our best scorer. While Hinrich is our best defensive player.But if I had to choose one of them to give up in a trade it would depend on who we were getting back. If it's somebody like Kobe then I'd obviously give up Gordon. But if it's somebody who's not a scorer, then it would probably be Hinrich.
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... Kirk plays on both ends of the court so it's def him. Gordon has got to get more consistent, and it could be him. The Bulls still find ways to win when Gordon doesn't go off and score a ton. Kirk is their leader night in and night out.
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... Kirk is the better all-around player because he can shoot a decent jumper, pass effeciently, and play some of the best perimeter defense in the NBA. That being said the question was who is more valuable. Ben Gordon is the bulls offense, and you dont win NBA games without scoring so it's easily Ben Gordon. He is also a hustle player and not a bad defensive player at all. He has improved with his rebounding, and his ball-handling skills have improved immensely from his rookie season where he won 6th man of the year. The fact is though the Bulls could manage to still be a great team with duhon starting but without Gordon we have no real scorer to set the tone of the game and make clutch baskets to win close games.
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 22 2007, 11:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kirk is the better all-around player because he can shoot a decent jumper, pass effeciently, and play some of the best perimeter defense in the NBA. That being said the question was who is more valuable. Ben Gordon is the bulls offense, and you dont win NBA games without scoring so it's easily Ben Gordon. He is also a hustle player and not a bad defensive player at all. He has improved with his rebounding, and his ball-handling skills have improved immensely from his rookie season where he won 6th man of the year. The fact is though the Bulls could manage to still be a great team with duhon starting but without Gordon we have no real scorer to set the tone of the game and make clutch baskets to win close games.</div>First of all, Gordon isn't entirely Chicago's offense. They have other guys that can score as well, such as Deng, Hinrich, etc. Gordon is pretty one-dimensional, as well. Since his rookie year, he's improved in his scoring (stat-wise), but since coming out of UConn, Gordon has always been a scorer. He also does not take it to the basket as much as a SG should, he should work on more areas of his offense if he wants to prove to me that he is more valuable than Kirk Hinrich. Shooting only 41% from the field is another reason why BG should work on driving to the basket. He may not be an awful defensive player, but you can clearly tell that he does not put in the effort scoring buckets than he does in playing solid man-to-man defense. Also, I think Luol Deng is Chicago's best player. He can score in many ways, great man-to-man defender, and is still young and improving. All he needs to do is work on improving his perimeter game a bit, and he could be one of the best SFs in the league.
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zards @ Jun 23 2007, 11:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First of all, Gordon isn't entirely Chicago's offense. They have other guys that can score as well, such as Deng, Hinrich, etc. Gordon is pretty one-dimensional, as well. Since his rookie year, he's improved in his scoring (stat-wise), but since coming out of UConn, Gordon has always been a scorer. He also does not take it to the basket as much as a SG should, he should work on more areas of his offense if he wants to prove to me that he is more valuable than Kirk Hinrich. Shooting only 41% from the field is another reason why BG should work on driving to the basket. He may not be an awful defensive player, but you can clearly tell that he does not put in the effort scoring buckets than he does in playing solid man-to-man defense. Also, I think Luol Deng is Chicago's best player. He can score in many ways, great man-to-man defender, and is still young and improving. All he needs to do is work on improving his perimeter game a bit, and he could be one of the best SFs in the league.</div>The question was who is the most valuable? Chicago is a jump shot team and Ben Gordon is our jump shooter. He is the reason we made it back to the playoffs as seen by our drought before we drafted him. His scoring sets the tone for the rest of the team like I previously mentioned and without him scoring his big games We probably wouldnt win very many tough games.
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BuLLzDoMaIn @ Jun 22 2007, 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Cause he cant defend, isnt that good of a passer or dribbler.</div>ill answer this question later but fyi ben gordon can dribble pretty good
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 23 2007, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The question was who is the most valuable? Chicago is a jump shot team and Ben Gordon is our jump shooter. He is the reason we made it back to the playoffs as seen by our drought before we drafted him. His scoring sets the tone for the rest of the team like I previously mentioned and without him scoring his big games We probably wouldnt win very many tough games.</div>The question was who is the more valuable of the two players: Kirk Hinrich or Ben Gordon. Aren't you forgetting that Chicago also drafted Luol Deng that year? Sure, Ben Gordon was the ROY that year but that award is based entirely on statistics. The Bulls did not have Luol Deng in the '05 playoffs where they lost to the Wizards. If he was playing, Bulls would have probably won that series. The thing is, Chicago had a great draft that year.. and Ben Gordon does not deserve all the credit.
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zards @ Jun 23 2007, 10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First of all, Gordon isn't entirely Chicago's offense. They have other guys that can score as well, such as Deng, Hinrich, etc. Gordon is pretty one-dimensional, as well. Since his rookie year, he's improved in his scoring (stat-wise), but since coming out of UConn, Gordon has always been a scorer. He also does not take it to the basket as much as a SG should, he should work on more areas of his offense if he wants to prove to me that he is more valuable than Kirk Hinrich. Shooting only 41% from the field is another reason why BG should work on driving to the basket. He may not be an awful defensive player, but you can clearly tell that he does not put in the effort scoring buckets than he does in playing solid man-to-man defense. Also, I think Luol Deng is Chicago's best player. He can score in many ways, great man-to-man defender, and is still young and improving. All he needs to do is work on improving his perimeter game a bit, and he could be one of the best SFs in the league.</div>Problem is, besides maybe Nocioni they have nobody on the team who can score on a consistent basis. They have a tough time scoring as it is, take away their leading scorer and they would really have a tough time. Wallace sure as hell won't score, and Duhon is a nice role player but nothing more. The rest of their bench players are defenders or veterans who lack an offensive game.Hinrich is the better overall player, but Gordon is more valuable to this team IMO. Duhon can replace Hinrich better than anyone on the current Bulls roster could replace Gordon.
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... Well im sure if gordon was traded we would be getting a scorer back anyway to replace him. So no harm there. But to find a PG who plays hard and both ends.. and that can defend the best backcourt players outthere you really wont find someone to do that.Duhon and Gordon would get killed outthere
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zards @ Jun 23 2007, 05:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The question was who is the more valuable of the two players: Kirk Hinrich or Ben Gordon. Aren't you forgetting that Chicago also drafted Luol Deng that year? Sure, Ben Gordon was the ROY that year but that award is based entirely on statistics. The Bulls did not have Luol Deng in the '05 playoffs where they lost to the Wizards. If he was playing, Bulls would have probably won that series. The thing is, Chicago had a great draft that year.. and Ben Gordon does not deserve all the credit.</div>I never gave Ben Gordon all the credit but if any player was the reason for our turn-around in 05 it was Ben Gordon. His huge sparks off the bench are what helped elevate us to the next level and compared to Deng he had a much more impactful rookie year. Ben Gordon is the most valuable player in our backcourt though period. Without his 20 ppg we would not be a 50 win team.
Re: Of Chicago's backcourt... [quote name='Zards' post='388144' date='Jun 23 2007, 10:22 AM']First of all, Gordon isn't entirely Chicago's offense. They have other guys that can score as well, such as Deng, Hinrich, etc.[/quote]Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich are all of Chicago's offense. Nocioni was injured for the majority of the season last year and the Bulls have no depth besides him. Ben Gordon is primarily a jump shooter, but so are guys like Allen, Redd, Joe Johnson and Hamilton; nothing wrong with that. Gordon averages 4.6 free throw makes per game, nothing special but it's more than Hamilton, Chris Paul, Roy, Ellis, Parker, Joe Johnson, Marbury, Davis, Ginobili, and Butler, among others. And that's while playing less minutes than pretty much every one of those guys.And I would agree with PrimeTime, Gordon is more valuable to Chicago than Deng or Hinrich simply because there is nobody on our roster than can replace what he does. I would agree that Deng and Hinrich probably hold more value around the league because their games are more well rounded. Gordon shot 46% from the field last year; which is pretty good for a shooting guard. And it's quite impressive for a guy who's 6 feet tall. Again, that's a better shooting percentage than guys like Carter, Iverson, Davis, Paul, and Areans, who barely shoots a better percentage form the field than Gordon does from 3.Also, the idea that Ben Gordon plays matador defense is overblown; not saying by you, but by a lot of people. In his first couple of years he was pretty bad; but he's improved. For example, 82games.com has him with the lowest opponent per on our team. Now a lot of that has to do with the fact that Hinrich always guards the bigger threat in the backourt, but it shows that Ben can hold his own. [quote name='KCX' post='388363' date='Jun 23 2007, 03:33 PM']ill answer this question later but fyi ben gordon can dribble pretty good[/quote]For a guard, Ben's ball handling is pretty weak. The reason he plays shooting guard is because of his weak ball handling and poor decision making. That's something that he has to improve.
