<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Let Em Hear This @ Jun 24 2007, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe you're stupid for not understanding my point. My point was just because a player succeeds in college doesn't mean that they'll succeed in the NBA. I wasn't making a direct comparison of the two. There have been a lot of tremendous scorers in college. But a good portion of them either couldn't make the NBA or just straight up sucked in the NBA. With Oden, you know he's tall, he's athletic, strong, and can play on the post. And with a league almost devoid of true big men, it's just the smarter decision to take Oden.</div>And with Durant you know he has a great jumpshot, very athletic, a 6'10'' frame, and has probably the best offensive arsenal I have seen from a player coming out of college. Of course there is risk, but that is with any player, including Oden. There have been many players, both perimeter and post, who have succeeded in college and failed in the league. But there is little reason to believe either of these guys will fail in the NBA. Your Morrison analogy was stupid as outside of being a top tier scorer they have nothing in common. Oh, and Oden is the better pick not because of his height, athleticism, strength or even skill, it is his potential of dominance.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 24 2007, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And with Durant you know he has a great jumpshot, very athletic, a 6'10'' frame, and has probably the best offensive arsenal I have seen from a player coming out of college. Of course there is risk, but that is with any player, including Oden. There have been many players, both perimeter and post, who have succeeded in college and failed in the league. But there is little reason to believe either of these guys will fail in the NBA. Your Morrison analogy was stupid as outside of being a top tier scorer they have nothing in common. Oh, and Oden is the better pick not because of his height, athleticism, strength or even skill, it is his potential of dominance.</div>You need to improve your comprehension. You're just trying to prove me wrong on any account you can. You talk like what you say is fact, kid. I was stating reasons for why Oden would be the safer pick. And doesn't potential for dominance take skill into account? You're an imbecile. Skill and strength in the paint defensively and offensively is why they're taking Oden. Durant has potential for dominance at his position also. But Oden has more upside. You already know he can anchor your defense. But he may also anchor your offense.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe you're stupid for not understanding my point. My point was just because a player succeeds in college doesn't mean that they'll succeed in the NBA. I wasn't making a direct comparison of the two. There have been a lot of tremendous scorers in college. But a good portion of them either couldn't make the NBA or just straight up sucked in the NBA. With Oden, you know he's tall, he's athletic, strong, and can play on the post. And with a league almost devoid of true big men, it's just the smarter decision to take Oden.</div>K?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Let Em Hear This @ Jun 24 2007, 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You need to improve your comprehension. You're just trying to prove me wrong on any account you can. You talk like what you say is fact, kid. I was stating reasons for why Oden would be the safer pick. And doesn't potential for dominance take skill into account? You're an imbecile. Skill and strength in the paint defensively and offensively is why they're taking Oden. Durant has potential for dominance at his position also. But Oden has more upside. You already know he can anchor your defense. But he may also anchor your offense.K?</div>If you weren't making a direct comparison, then why the F*ck would you bring Morrison up in such a general analogy? You brought up Morrison and went into detail about his failure, so there should have been at least more similarities between the 2 other than both being great scorers in college. All I did was show why I think that Durant is a totally different story than a player who was barely scratching many top 5's in mockdrafts.As I said before, it's potential that they are taking Oden. If they were going by already developed skill, they'd be taking Durant as the first pick. Oden will be picked first becuase of his potential to be the kind of player you can more easily build a championship team around, because, as you said, he can anchor a defense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 24 2007, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree Oden will be a great defensive player from the get go but I dont see how you have him getting 10 rpg already. He is a good rebounder but if he cant get 10 boards per game in college what makes you think he can get 10 rpg as a rookie in the NBA? My comparison to Bynum was mainly meant to be based on their coming 07-08 stats. I think Bynum has a fair chance to be just as good a player as Oden does though.Bynum averages 7/6 right now in just over 20 minutes per game. That isnt bad for an 18 year old.</div>Greg Oden will atleast average 8rpg...but I think he will average 10rpg. You cant forget that he had a broken hand, and seeing it this season with Gasol, if your stats dont start out well its hard to get them back up to what you are really doing(for ex. Gasol came back and his first few games got like 5rpg, but later and later into the year he was getting somehting like 10-12rpg, but it only shows up at 9.5 rpg). Greg Odens rookie season will probably look like this 10ppg, 10rpg and 2bpg.As for Bynum, im a hater of him...just is and probably always will be. I think hes overrated and the only thing that can change my mind is him getting something like 15ppg and 9rpg within the next 3 or 4 seasons...edit:but saying that, if he does live up to being a star, IMO he will be a Tim Duncan type of player as far as style...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BluffCityBlue @ Jun 24 2007, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As for Bynum, im a hater of him...just is and probably always will be. I think hes overrated and the only thing that can change my mind is him getting something like 15ppg and 9rpg within the next 3 or 4 seasons...edit:but saying that, if he does live up to being a star, IMO he will be a Tim Duncan type of player as far as style...</div>Andrew Bynum could average 15/9 today if he played 40 minutes per game. In the next 3-4 years he will be one of the top 5 centers in the nba. He has been making very significant improvements and I wouldnt be surprised if next season or the season after he has a breakout season where he shuts up critics.
Using the logic of "hes averaged 7ppg in 20 minutes, he can get 15ppg in 40 minutes" isnt a strong case. Playing 40 minutes can make him very tired, it all goes along with stamina. You also wonder how he got those 7ppg in 20 minutes...is it scrap minutes and/or the part of the game usually in the 2nd Q when the players are slowed a bit.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 24 2007, 11:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Andrew Bynum could average 15/9 today if he played 40 minutes per game. In the next 3-4 years he will be one of the top 5 centers in the nba. He has been making very significant improvements and I wouldnt be surprised if next season or the season after he has a breakout season where he shuts up critics.</div>Bynum hasn't made significant improvement. He started off quite well last year, but the last 1/2 of the season he was virtually non-existent. He still has a long way to go to be a top center in the league.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 25 2007, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Bynum hasn't made significant improvement. He started off quite well last year, but the last 1/2 of the season he was virtually non-existent. He still has a long way to go to be a top center in the league.</div>82 Games is a long time and he is still very young. Give him a few seasons and he will be an allstar I believe. It's true Stamina is a big part of it, but I really believe per 40 minutes per game the kid can put up 15/9. He does well in limited time, and he will only get better. He may rival Oden is years to come as the best center in the west.
Greg Oden will probably come in and his rookie season will be better the Bynums next 3 or 4 seasons...I dont see anybody except MAYBE Amare Stoudemire challenging Oden in the future for the best center...unless Dwight Howard gets traded to the West(that would be insane...it wont happen though).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 25 2007, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>82 Games is a long time and he is still very young. Give him a few seasons and he will be an allstar I believe. It's true Stamina is a big part of it, but I really believe per 40 minutes per game the kid can put up 15/9. He does well in limited time, and he will only get better. He may rival Oden is years to come as the best center in the west.</div>15/9 isn't being a contender for best center in the West. With guys like Yao and Amare out West, and soon to be oden, I highly doubt Bynum will ever achieve that crown. As I said before, Oden's value goes far behind his stats. He can anchor a defense and do it at a DPOY caliber level. In other words, check out what Ben Wallace did for the Pistons a few years back, and check out what Duncan is doing right now for the Spurs. Guys who can anchor a defense can change their own man's shot, any slasher's shot, and can allow perimeter player to defend differently as they know the big man will back them up. Bynum doesn't have this kind of defensive ability, while Oden has already shown he can anchor a defense and be extremely successful.
If you guys have been following Durant couldnt even bench 185, he needs to put on more weight. I do believe once he does that he wouldnt be able to adjust to the new size, He might be a lil sluggish with the extra weight on.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 25 2007, 01:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>15/9 isn't being a contender for best center in the West. With guys like Yao and Amare out West, and soon to be oden, I highly doubt Bynum will ever achieve that crown. As I said before, Oden's value goes far behind his stats. He can anchor a defense and do it at a DPOY caliber level. In other words, check out what Ben Wallace did for the Pistons a few years back, and check out what Duncan is doing right now for the Spurs. Guys who can anchor a defense can change their own man's shot, any slasher's shot, and can allow perimeter player to defend differently as they know the big man will back them up. Bynum doesn't have this kind of defensive ability, while Oden has already shown he can anchor a defense and be extremely successful.</div>I didnt say this season he would be a contender for best center in the west. I said in the coming years.I agree Oden will be very good defensively and possibly the best post defender in the nba by 2010 but I could see Bynums offense rivaling Oden in a few seasons. He's got alot to work on but he's come far already from being the youngest player ever drafted and he's got Kareem teaching him. Bynum is a project but if he pans out he will be well worth that #10 pick for the Lakers. Yao Ming will not be around forever either, by 2010 he will be 30 and I think with his size he will begin his decline somewhere around there.
I think Kevin Durant may be more likely to make an early all star team, or become a media favorite, because of the style of play he brings, being a guy that shoots from outside as a big man. In other words, a big man that approaches the offensive game like a guard. Maybe he can be the next Dirk Nowitzki. Durant will score more points than Oden, because Durant will take more shots.That's good for getting him endorsements and fans, but as far as winning championships, it doesn't do quite as much. Scoring more points does NOT make you the better player, nor does having more endorsements, more highlights, or being more popular. Helping the team win does this, and Oden will do more to make the Blazers win than Durant can.The degree to which players like Chamberlain, Jabbar, Olajuwon, Duncan, Shaq, etc., change the game in favor of their own teams doesn't show up in the "points scored" column for the individual. It shows up in the point differential for the team. These guys are the biggest game changers, bar none.The other reason that Oden is the no brainer choice, which has been alluded to already, is that the relative difference at that position vs. available talent is huge at the center position. Even if he exceeds expectations, Durant will not be that far ahead of other small forwards (or the alternatives the Blazers have on their roster already). Oden will be, even if he comes up short of expectations. If you get past the extremely shortsighted evaluation criteria of "who will score more points," the competition is over. Oden will get more points/touch, because he will be efficient, and will do far more to help the team defensively and on the boards, guaranteed. For Portland to pick Durant over Oden would be a huge mistake, in my opinion. It wouldn't be like taking Bowie over Jordan, it would be like taking any player in front of Olajuwon.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 24 2007, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Having a great center doesn't guarantee a championship that is my point. Without Kobe and wade shaq would have 0 titles. Without Drexler, Hakeem would have 0 titles. TEAMS win championships not centers. You can have the best center to ever play the game but without a complete team you will go no where.</div>I agree that the team is the entity that wins, but the Rockets example is inaccurate. Clyde gave them the boost they needed to repeat, but Hakeem won the year before without him. And since basketball is a team game, pulling away key players from any championship team and trying to draw conclusions doesn't make sense. That Rockets team also wouldn't have won without Robert Horry, who was huge against the Suns, and Cassell, Smith, and Elie were also critical at times.
For, this arguement on who is the better player right now I will choose Greg Oden. He is a very good defender, rebounder, and shot blocker. He will be a 15/10/4.5 man. The reason that I am choosing Greg over Kevin right now is because Kevin is a bit thin for the NBA. I know that shouldn't be a reason but also how often do you see a great center like Oden who is ready to become a starter at this age. Rarely. Yes, at the end of this year, assuming both don't get hurt Kevin will put up more points, but at the end of the night you will say whoa Greg really shut down that guy tonight on defense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jordanisoverrated @ Jun 25 2007, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think Kevin Durant may be more likely to make an early all star team, or become a media favorite, because of the style of play he brings, being a guy that shoots from outside as a big man. In other words, a big man that approaches the offensive game like a guard. Maybe he can be the next Dirk Nowitzki. Durant will score more points than Oden, because Durant will take more shots.</div>He will be much more like a T-Mac, Rashard or Carmelo than Dirk. Durant is much more versatile than Dirk, and has much more overall scoring ability than Dirk. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>For Portland to pick Durant over Oden would be a huge mistake, in my opinion. It wouldn't be like taking Bowie over Jordan, it would be like taking any player in front of Olajuwon.</div>Jordan won 6 rings and is, by the VAST majority's opinion, the greatest player to ever play in the NBA... so your point is not really all that valid.
I hate the Kevin Durant-Tracy McGrady comparisons...Tmac is a underrated playmaker, and Durant isnt much of one at all. Offensively Kevin Durant is like Rashard Lewis just with alot more potential...ive even heard hes like a Tayshaun Prince just with more potential and athleticsm...id rather go with the Tayshaun comparison than the overrated Tmac comparison...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BluffCityBlue @ Jun 25 2007, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I hate the Kevin Durant-Tracy McGrady comparisons...Tmac is a underrated playmaker, and Durant isnt much of one at all. Offensively Kevin Durant is like Rashard Lewis just with alot more potential...ive even heard hes like a Tayshaun Prince just with more potential and athleticsm...id rather go with the Tayshaun comparison than the overrated Tmac comparison...</div>I wasn't comparing him to T-Mac, but as a scorer he will mimic T-Mac much moreso than Dirk. But I do believe that Durant has a lot of early-Magic T-Mac in him as a scorer. Great jumpshooter, very athletic, has that body, similar offensive arsenal, etc... He is nothing like Tayshaun Prince, and Rashard Lewis is a good comparison but Durant's offensive moves mimic T-Mac moreso than Lewis.
I think hes somewhat like Prince if you add more athleticism and a overall more talented player...im speaking off style of play(Durant isnt near the defender though).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BluffCityBlue @ Jun 25 2007, 01:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think hes somewhat like Prince if you add more athleticism and a overall more talented player...im speaking off style of play(Durant isnt near the defender though).</div>Again, I don't see Prince in him at all. The moves Durant has, between getting his own jumpshot, to posting up, to exploding to the rim, is really nothing like Prince. The only comparison I see there is their bodies. As I said, the way Durant handles the ball and gets his own shot (like the dribble forward, crossover than pullup jumper, or dribble forward, step back through legs and jumper, or simple fadeaway off of high post) is very much like T-Mac, and his post play reminds me of Lewis.
