http://82games.com/dpoy.htmDefense is the hardest thing in basketball to keep a record of in basketball, and many players (mostly big men) are overrated on the blocked shot, the media/NBA would go crazy if a big man downlow blocked a shot into the stands, but in reality, they created no offense, and gave the ball back to the offense to reset. This article highlights how big man defense perceptions are tainted and how players like Shawn Marion, Ron Artest, and Bruce Bowen are not noticed. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>ABSTRACTThe traits that make up a good NBA defender are hard to measure statistically. However, with the amount of raw data now publicly available, new measurements can be applied to assess a player?s defensive value beyond currently utilized statistics. It seems that every year most discussions regarding the NBA Defensive Player of the Year contain at least as much subjective argument as statistical data. We intend to present an argument based almost entirely on statistical measures. We have used seven defensive measures to evaluate and rank the NBA?s defensive standouts. Three are commonly utilized: Steals, Blocks, and Defensive Rebounds. The others are designed to measure the intangible, previously subjective aspects of defense: Defensive Plus/Minus, Personal Foul Efficiency, Offensive Conversion Rate, and Block Value. Based on these very telling measures, it is our conclusion that Shawn Marion has the edge in a close race for this year?s NBA Defensive Player of the Year award. It is that time of the year in the NBA. The regular season is over, the playoffs are looming, and matchup discussions have begun. Yet one order of business remains before we can give the playoffs our full attention. It?s time to discuss regular season awards. MVP, Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year? As avid NBA fans, we love the debate and drama that we are presented with at this time every season. Every analyst has an opinion, but it is only at this time of the year that seemingly every analyst feels an absolute and undeniable need to express it. Yet even as we revel in the uncensored remarks of any and every individual who decides to enter the fray, a few things have begun to irk us with regard to one award in particular?</div>This is another great article I found on 82games.com, a great website. It highlights many things; how big men always win dpoy, how really valuable a block is (especially for big men) and what type of players create offensive plays on defense. It kind of highlights players like Shawn Marion, Ron Artest, and Bruce Bowen's value to a teamAn interesting stat that they proposed was something called the Block Value. This is a very interesting stat and refutes to why people go crazy for so called 'defensive studs' like Tim Duncan and Emeka Okafor. Heres an overview of the Block Value stat: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Block Value ? Measures PPG average of all opponents blocked. In most cases, a block against a good scorer is of greater value than a block against an NBA 12th man. Thus, each block has value relative to the player whose shot is blocked. A higher BV is typically an indication that a player is getting more quality blocks and/or drawing more difficult assignments. For instance, Orlando players Darko Milicic and Dwight Howard have roughly equal block totals, but if Milicic registered all his blocks against Michael Doleac, and Howard registered all his blocks against Dwayne Wade, the value of Howard?s blocks would far exceed those of Milicic.</div>Basically what I get from this is that people like Duncan and Okafor just wait for any slashing player to come into the lane to block a shot. Sure they're good at it, but really, I think of it as camping. Which is why players like Marion and Artest have high block values, they work at getting a block. Its harder to block a Kobe Bryant or a Tmac or a Wade than it is to block any average big men down low in the post. The stat that shows how players create offense of defense is called offensive conversion rate. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Offensive Conversion Rate ? Measures the percentage of a player's steals that result in a made basket or free throw attempts within 5 seconds. It is a measure of a player's transition defense in terms of how frequently his steals lead to offensive production. For example, during a game against Detroit, Ben Wallace anticipated a pass and stole the ball at the defensive end. He dribbled slowly downcourt and passed to Tyrus Thomas who was fouled on a dunk attempt. Wallace?s anticipation led directly to offensive opportunity, giving the steal more value. In this case, the action took 6 seconds. Had the steal occurred in transition or facing up with his defender near the perimeter, he easily would have converted within 5 seconds.</div>As you see, Marion scores high in this area, and probably accounts to a good portion of the Sun's fastbreak opportunities. I liked this article, and it kind of shows the little things that defenders do, dont go un noticed. I really liked the Block Value stat. It really says alot, do some players camp/work for their blocks? I think theres a fine line, but most people dont notice. One thing Dwight Howard is guilty of. Which is why I dont think hes even considered as an elite defensive player. Just because his block shots is the ones I talk about, the ones that are booted in the stands, not creating offensive opportunities. I like how they also gave credit to the Bruce Bowen's, who basically are told, your gaurding the best 1, 2 or 3 player on the floor EVERY game. These players refine their defensive games day in and out, and deserve credit. Now people are going to tell me, players like Bowen , Marion and Artest, do get appreciation, but not true, Camby beat out of everyone in that award by 50 points or more for first place voting. Also, Artest is the only non-center in the last 10 years to win DPOY. Tell me there is no flaw with this award.
I think ron artest is noticed by the media, he just hasn't had any real full seasons yet\But yeah, intersesting article
I always find it funny when those articles talk about going beyond traditional stats....and then they conclude that Shawn Marion is the best defender in the league or one of the 5 best players, since anybody who watches him knows his traditional stats overrate him defensively. Whats important is that the guy he's guarding averages about 18-10 on 53% shooting, almost exactly matching his production.
This block value evaluation sounds extremely flawed to me. Blocks that are worth the most are those that prevent an otherwise likely score. These are the types of blocks that many of the so called "campers" are getting. Is it more important that the blocked shot was hard to get, or that it was more likely to stop points from being scored?Evaluating how much a blocked shot is worth based on an opposing shooter's overall scoring rate is preposterous. Blocks by big men down low are blocks that prevent high percentage shots, because of where the shots are taken, not who's taking them, and furthermore, having a guy down low who blocks shots impacts the opponent in that they take more shots from further away, which also lowers the opponent's scoring total.This is why guys like Tim Duncan, Olajuwon, Russell, etc are CORRECTLY evaluated as having the biggest impact defensively, and are not overrated as defenders, but underrated.Manute Bol is another good example. Worthless on offense, but nobody changed a game like Manute Bol when he played on the Sixers and Bullets. He'd come in the game, and suddenly the opponent started shooting jumpers. I wonder why.Block value based on whose shots you block. Absolutely ridiculous.
This article is retarded and proves pretty much nothing about basketball. I don't pay attention to much what 82games says, because all they do is use stats to prove everything without actually viewing which defensive stats effect a game the most. Like Jordanisoverrated made reference to, Shot blockers have a much larger effect on the game whether they get the block or not, because they can effect the entire rest of the team more so than a perimeter player can. Players like Tim Duncan, Emeka Okafor, Ben Wallace, are going to effect the outcome of the game defensively alot more than players like Shawn Marion, Bruce Bowen, and the wing defensive players are going to. This is because a shot blocker also can directly effect how many easy layups or easy close range shot attempts the other teams players get. They help your wing players alot, because if the wing is beat off the dribble, he is met by the shot blocker to alter their shot at the basket causing less easy shot oppurtunities. There was a few times where Steve Nash was able to get past Bruce Bowen off the dribble during that playoff series, but missed his layup because of Duncan being there to alter Nash's layup at the basket. That is going to make Bowen look alot better because his man is having a hard time scoring, but he was helped by the fact that Duncan was there to cover for him. Just the same as Tayshaun Prince looked like he was just as good of a wing defender as Bruce Bowen when Ben Wallace was on the Pistons. This year Wallace was not out there with him, and in turn Prince did not look like as good of a defensive player as he had in past seasons. That goes to show how much a shot blocker impacts the outcome of the game defensively as opposed to how much a wing player impacts the outcome of the game. Shotblockers are looked at as great defensive players, just because of the outcome they have on a team offensively, not because they are able to rack up on blocks and do little else.
The stat is nothing to what jordan said. It just shows the maybe the blocks Marion and Bruce Bowen work for are maybe harder to get than Duncan's. Whether it stopped/allowed points is beside the point, players like Artest, Marion and Bowen work harder than their blocks than Duncan, Okafor, or Garnett. You guys are evaluating these guys as playing the perimeter only, but also defend at the mid range too. When they face the Kobe's, Lebron's and Wade's they rarely block a 3pt shot, but rather in the paint, therefore increasing the block value. Whether the field goal was close to the vicinity of the hoop doesn't matter, because this stat doesn't address that. It adress's the easiness of blocking a shot of a mediocre big man vs. a superstar.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jun 28 2007, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The stat is nothing to what jordan said. It just shows the maybe the blocks Marion and Bruce Bowen work for are maybe harder to get than Duncan's. Whether it stopped/allowed points is beside the point, players like Artest, Marion and Bowen work harder than their blocks than Duncan, Okafor, or Garnett. You guys are evaluating these guys as playing the perimeter only, but also defend at the mid range too. When they face the Kobe's, Lebron's and Wade's they rarely block a 3pt shot, but rather in the paint, therefore increasing the block value. Whether the field goal was close to the vicinity of the hoop doesn't matter, because this stat doesn't address that. It adress's the easiness of blocking a shot of a mediocre big man vs. a superstar.</div>Just becaues they work harder for their blocks does not mean it had more meaning on the game. The "campers" as you call them often times are the ones that effect the outcome of a basketball game, and make players like Bruce Bowen and Tayshaun Prince look alot better than they are. The shot blockers can stop some penetrating players from going all the way to the basket, instead settling for mid-longer range shots that are harder to make. A great example of this was when Allen Iverson was able to get past Bruce Bowen and Tony Parker during the Nuggets series, instead of going all the way to the rim, he would stop alot and take jumpers because Duncan was rotating over to him a great deal. Any other time Parker would keep going all the way to the rim for a layup, but knowing that Duncan was there would cause him to stop and shoot longer range shots. Other times, Duncan and the other big men rotating would cause Iverson to have to take a much harder shot at the basket than usual, and miss layups he would usually make. So many people painted it that Bowen, Vaughn and Parker did such a great job defensively on Iverson, when they had alot of help from Duncan in limiting Iverson that series so much.Much the same as when Wallace was playing for Detroit, during the Cleveland series James had a much harder time scoring because of Wallace being there. James didn't have any 48 point games, including 25 straight in the fourth and overtime. James was able to get by Prince, but because of Wallace down low had a much harder time scoring and settled for alot more longer range shots because of Wallace's shot blocking presence. This year, James took it to the basket without Wallace there and it made Prince not look like as good of a defensive player. That shows the impact a shot blocker can have on someone that is not his man. As for that last bolded part, that blocks value part is even more retarded. Bowen didn't even average a whole block per game, so his blocks value really doesn't effect the outcome of a game. Hell at a .30 blocks per game, that means about every three games he would get 1 block, much the same as Ron Artest didn't even get an entire block per game. That means once ever two or three games these two effect the game with a block. That's not very valuable, nor does it prove anything for them having more value with their blocked shots. Furthermore, in alot of games the opposing team will win, not off of the Superstar putting up his normal stats, but off of one of the roleplayers stepping up and having big games. With Duncan out there those role players are alot less likely to do something to effect the game, as opposed to Bowen who will do nothing to stop the roleplayers, will only cause his man to have a harder time scoring. Duncan is why the entire team as a whole has much worse games against the Spurs, because he can get into the paint and cause the other team to have a harder time getting easy scoring oppurtunities. This whole article is retarded, and there is so much that can be used to prove it wrong and show why the stats they use do nothing to actually effect the outcome of a game.
