I have been writing up something about the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina and all of the continuing effects on the city as far as race relations, crime etc. I put emphasis on continuing because contrary to people's optimistic beliefs (of course, people on the outside of things), we won't be fully recovered for the next 10 years or so. What I have come upon is the fact that crime has run rampant in this city since the storm, even worse than it was before. I hear all of the older folk and city leaders (even Nagin came out and said this) talk about how hip-hop and rap and something I call the "Lil Wayne Effect" influences all of this black on black crime here. Hey, I'm not going to be hypocritical; I listen to rap, I grew up on Mystikal, Master P, Silkk the Shocker and all of these other N.O. rappers but nowadays I started to disagree with some of the things rappers say. I like the music; I don't mind a good beat, but I hate what they say sometimes in their lyrics. So, my question to you is- do you think there is a link between Hip-Hop/Rap and crime in America, more particularly in your area? Should hip-hop be censored? I'll put my ideas in and talk more about what I mean by the "Lil Wayne Effect" here.
There is no connection between crime and hiphop. There is however a connection between money and crime. If everyone had money there would be no need to commit most crimes(thievary,selling drugs,prostitution,etc.) I'm not saying it would solve all crimes but it would at least eliminate 90% of most felonies. People would still smoke weed but hell that aint no crime.
I dont think hiphop has anything to do with crime, New Orleans was the spincter of the world before hiphop and it still is the spincter of the world. Crime has been a human element since humanity began, so by removing hip hop your dont solve anything.I don't agree that there is a connection between Money and crime though, look at all the white collar criminals like Martha Stewart, Paris Hilton, Ken Lay ect. they all have money, and lots of it yet they still commited crimes. There is some corrilation between money and the types of crimes a criminal commits. most rich people wont become mass murderers, but they will pay others to do it for them so they are still guilty of the crime.I think the reason New Orleans has so much crime is that throught-out it's history it's been a mecca for the worst of the worst. It's practically the modern day Soddam and Gommarah. also, the black community there has a "whoa is me" complex more so than any other black community in America. they have also seen themselves as victims of society, which in their minds rationalizes any crimes they commit.I've been to New Orleans many times, and it's one of the few historic places I have been which I absolutly hate. the people there just flat out suck and dont understand that half their troubles are their own fault. It's sad that so many people died, but contrary to what they say they could have left. even if they walked their asses out of their they could have left. Now they see themselves as victims when the media portrays them as looters, if they were taking food, water, even beer than they wouldn't be considered looters. but when you're walking down the street with a suit of armor you're a looter.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (redneck @ Jun 26 2007, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think the reason New Orleans has so much crime is that throught-out it's history it's been a mecca for the worst of the worst. It's practically the modern day Soddam and Gommarah. also, the black community there has a "whoa is me" complex more so than any other black community in America. they have also seen themselves as victims of society, which in their minds rationalizes any crimes they commit.</div>If you would look back in the history of the entire city, crime was not much of a problem as it is today. You're just alluding to the "party city/Bourbon Street" generalization that a lot of people see in the city. And why would you say that blacks have this whole "woe is me" complex that is the worst in America? On what grounds can you make that statement? A while ago, I overheard two white men talk about something like this; how blacks in the city say they're not being helped but when they are presented with it they don't take it. I was very offended.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (redneck @ Jun 26 2007, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>the people there just flat out suck and dont understand that half their troubles are their own fault.</div>I do agree with that, especially in the black community, but only applies to crime. If African-American parents would teach their children what is right and what is wrong and would work to create a better situation for them, we wouldn't see so many young men dying the way they do. However, when you say that their troubles are their own fault, currently our trouble is rebuilding. No matter how you try to spin it, the government has flat out failed us. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (redneck @ Jun 26 2007, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's sad that so many people died, but contrary to what they say they could have left. even if they walked their asses out of their they could have left. Now they see themselves as victims when the media portrays them as looters, if they were taking food, water, even beer than they wouldn't be considered looters. but when you're walking down the street with a suit of armor you're a looter.</div>First and foremost you need to understand why a lot of people did not have the ability to leave. You don't sound like you've been here enough or have seen a lot; you probably have just been to the French Quarter or wherever downtown and was disgusted by that. A lot of those people that didn't leave couldn't just 'walk their asses out' like you say, but in fact the majority were poor, didn't have family or friends, or just didn't have a way out so they figured they could stay and ride it out. No one banked on those levees to fail, which, if you would remember, broke after the storm left the area. How do YOU know that the majority of these people could have left? Don't try to make such a bold statement.In my view, hip-hop is influencing crime in young people. I mentioned the "Lil Wayne Effect" which basically means that all of young men down here want to be like the guy. Everybody has the dreadlocks and they're trying to deal drugs and rap and just are trying to come up like him. It's the most unoriginal thing in the world, but it is probably because of a lack of father figures in the home; who else would they have to look up to? To me, hip-hop and rap only hurts people who take what rappers say seriously and they start to apply that to their lives.
I've been to a good majority of the city, I get lost every time I go there so I know how big it is. I understand that most the residents probably didn't know anything about the levees, but the city hierarchy had to know. some of these levees were constructed pre-civil war. There are ways to leave a city if need be, and they should have planed a way out because they knew a Hurricane would have eventually hit the city. I live in a city which could have a massive Earthquake than flood, I know about 15 ways to get to higher ground in minutes, these people were just unprepared. though I shouldn't hold it all against the residents, Ray Nagin needs to take a huge chunk of the responsibility as well. there were all those school buses which could have been used.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (redneck @ Jun 26 2007, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've been to a good majority of the city, I get lost every time I go there so I know how big it is. I understand that most the residents probably didn't know anything about the levees, but the city hierarchy had to know. some of these levees were constructed pre-civil war. There are ways to leave a city if need be, and they should have planed a way out because they knew a Hurricane would have eventually hit the city. I live in a city which could have a massive Earthquake than flood, I know about 15 ways to get to higher ground in minutes, these people were just unprepared. though I shouldn't hold it all against the residents, Ray Nagin needs to take a huge chunk of the responsibility as well. there were all those school buses which could have been used.</div>Ok, first, the levees that broke were concrete levees. They were by no means constructed pre-Civil War. They were built in the middle of the 20th century. You must be referring to the natural levees that bind up the Mississippi River; those of which have concrete levees behind them. In a big city like New Orleans, there are only a few ways to get out if you have a car. I-10 going West is basically the most practical way since it is the only major interstate in the area. I do blame Ray Nagin for his lack of foresight, I agree, but once again nobody anticipated the levees to break. The government had their word on that.
The truth is, that when we stop beating around the bush, poverty is heavily linked to hip hop, and poverty is heavily linked to crime, so you're going to see a high correlation to crime, but if hip hop is removed the crime remains and if crime is removed hip hop remains.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tHe_pEsTiLeNcE @ Jun 26 2007, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The truth is, that when we stop beating around the bush, poverty is heavily linked to hip hop, and poverty is heavily linked to crime, so you're going to see a high correlation to crime, but if hip hop is removed the crime remains and if crime is removed hip hop remains.</div> :HAHAHA: Sorry...No but I agree with you.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Jun 26 2007, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>:HAHAHA: Sorry...</div>hey, don't diss on cb4's favorite hobby! XD
The reality in hip hop got manipulated because very few early hip hop albums were about crime. There was a diversity of approach, ideas, and vision that we didn't have to go looking for. It was right in our face. All the tough guys, flag-wavers, preppies - they all had the De La Soul and Tribe albums. The Rakim and KRS albums. All the cream puffs had the Ice T, Ice Cube, NWA, and Too $hort albums. The 2 Live Crew nasty ass albums. Whether you were talking sense or nonsense you got a chance.The major record labels bought up most of the smaller ones and pumped gangster music. Independents made a fortune off drug dealer music. Ballin. Player. Bling bling. The counterweight withered. Cats rhyme about black on black rage, material, and sex because that's all they are allowed to do. Now we're stuck with these clowns until there is a musical revolt.Of course it influences the youth and crime. Wayne is idolized. Dummies want to be his broke clone.
Young inner-city black kids go out and buy 50 cent albums and T.I. albums because they like the songs they hear on the radio and it's the music they are traditionally supposed to listen to. Then they listen to the rest of the album and the lyrics are littered with carrying guns, selling cocaine, and treating women like dogs. Nobody can convince me that rap lyrics is not an epidemic that is polluting the minds of young kids and encouraging them to veer the wrong way in life. The funny part is, 90% of these mainstream rappers don't even practice the actions they preach. Just the kids who's brains they rot do.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The funny part is, 90% of these mainstream rappers don't even practice the actions they preach. Just the kids who's brains they rot do.</div>Thats a good point, which is why some of these rappers should start changing things or at least getting the message out that what they talk about is wrong. But it won't happen, they're making money. To me, there's no problem in listening to the music; it becomes a problem when kids apply the lyrics to their lives like you say.
MOST people arent motivated to do crime from music(except weird and stupid people) but moreso their environment. people like rap music(at least I do) because the beats play to the heart of a young black man. Theres some really good music rap, and then theres stupid sh*t to exploit ignorant people. Rap has nothing to do with crime, if anything crime + poverty gave birth to hip hop.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jul 1 2007, 01:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>MOST people arent motivated to do crime from music(except weird and stupid people) but moreso their environment. people like rap music(at least I do) because the beats play to the heart of a young black man. Theres some really good music rap, and then theres stupid sh*t to exploit ignorant people. Rap has nothing to do with crime, if anything crime + poverty gave birth to hip hop.</div>The music does motivate the culture, though. I'm not saying that a rapper makes you put a joint in your mouth or rob a store, but it is so deep in the culture that when you hear it everyday and your friends do as well, it's pretty acceptable. If Dr. Dre and Snoop were saying don't do drugs and please help stop crime instead of talking about how awesome the sticky icky and cappin mothafuckas were, I'd put a bet down that a lot of kids would be thinking before they do things.
If you know the history of hip-hop, it was an escape for many people who lived in the projects and ghettos and something your block would do. This spread throughout the black community(as well as the hispanic)because theres significant numbers of african-americans in poverty. This changed through a number of years and particularly in New York people began to have rap battles, for which wasnt violent at the time. But it became violent between rivals of the sort. As New York is becoming large in hip-hop, cities like Oakland, LA, Memphis, ATL, Houston etc. began to build their own rap scenes and the West Coast particularly began Gangsta Rap which became widely popular and it was spread throughout the hip-hop(really rap) world. Gangsta Rap sprang up cause the type of people hip-hop appealed to also lived that life BEFORE rap, and simply applied their "gangster" experiences to hip-hop. Now a type of music that is already popular in the black poverty community turns pretty violent in which theres already alotve violence in the black poverty community. And it went from there...I do think some some idiots are driven by music, but not many. I dont know anybody who wanted become a killer or criminal cause theres a song about it. I think rap is associated with crimes because it appeals to the african-american community and like any ethnicity, that community has it share of criminals. Not all rap music talks about killing people with mack10s or whatever, thats a big stereotype that people on the outside looking in label hip-hop with. Hip-hop is so very different from gangsta rap. Hip-hop consists on artists with poet like skills...Mos Def, Raekwon, Talib, Common etc.Forgot to mention that rapping is pretty cheap, unlike rock, country or classical music, you can make music with simply two people. A guy beatboxing and a rapper...this is also why it appealed to young black men in poverty.
A brief history:Graf writing/tagging began in the early seventies in Philadelphia. By the time New York was done with it, it was worldwide. Because the city had a policy of painting over graf with white immediately, they were very attractive targets. Taggers would watch that colorful creativity fly across the city, complete with an alias. I think this germinated hip hops initial creativity.Around this time, a young guy transplant to the Bronx from Jamaica that remembered the huge sound systems from his homeland began doing parties and figured out a way to play breakbeats continuously by taping two albums together on two different turntables. Perhaps influenced by the taggers he changed his name to Kool Herc and made money off house parties. He would shout out drug dealers, hustlers, or dancing crews at the house parties. That made him the first official rapper and dj and producer. Eventually guys began to compete and spit lyrics at parties. It wasn't like a show is now. Back then you had to keep a party going for hours. All the early hip hop crews followed Herc's example, albeit with smaller systems, including the Zulu nation and The Furious Five. There were no records, just parties.Afrika Baambata and other community activists began directing violent energy into positivity with the Zulu nation by setting up "battles" that couldn't get you maimed or killed. DJ battles, MC battles, and breaking battles. Asked what the name of this collective street art form was in an interview in 82, Baambata referred to it as hip hop. The first record was "Rapper's Delight" over a "Good Times" breakbeat. It was a party single by The Sugarhill Gang. A manager that knew jack about the house parties put the group together in Jersey. They were seen as biters, allegedly spitting lyrics by Grandmaster Caz. Commercial rap still follows the same paradigm with a few variations as it's used to market gangster rap.The second rap song of any significance was "The Message" by the Furious Five. It was street rap. Hip Hop's definitive reality of the hood. The lyrics still hold up today.The first gangster rap single was made by Schoolly D from Philadelphia. "PSK" (Park Side Killers) was so underground back then. Ice-T, an L.A. Crip, credits his influence for his first album - "Rhyme Pays."Some New Yorkers claim that the first gangster album belongs to BDP's "Criminal Minded." All of the aforementioned songs and albums are legendary.There were guys like Mantronix doing house or techno rap then, too, but I wasn't familiar enough with the subgenre to discuss it credibly. But you know how that story is playing out anyway.Which brings me to my final point. Gangster Rap is just a subgenre of hip hop. One of at least the four I mentioned to emerge between 79-86. There were many more. You can follow the history of all of them. Gangster music got very popular with alot of white people for some reason when the spandex, big hair, leopard skin, make up thing got played out. 17-25 year olds had to start buying something that the younger kids that were buying the Backstreet Boys were still too young to touch. During the first Bush the federals intervened in Gangster Rap only when a police officer got shot in a song, or the rapper was critical of Bush in the album. Bush pretty much ended Ice-T's career and Ice did both.Most rappers just said bi*ch, ho, nigga - no more calling out president's by name. No more killing police. Ice Cube was the longest hold out in this regard. You'd get sporadic jolts. A DMX here. A KRS there. It had been many years since a really big rapper jumped on it. Kanye West resurrected the practice recently. Back in the day, you displayed your credibility on stage and everywhere you walked, but if you wasn't right for the job, you got booted. All you had to do was be you, whatever that was.But after a decade and a half of marketing this fantastical ghetto circus to a lazy and naive audience without a stake or discriminating ear to the culture, it's reversed. It's not an accident. I was nine years old when I first heard "Rapper's Delight." Music was about the least segregated format in America as it's ever been. It was oozing together. Now everything is a demographic. You don't have to sound good anymore, just different. But if you listen close, you might ask yourself, "What is there left to say?"
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Jul 1 2007, 02:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The music does motivate the culture, though. I'm not saying that a rapper makes you put a joint in your mouth or rob a store, but it is so deep in the culture that when you hear it everyday and your friends do as well, it's pretty acceptable. If Dr. Dre and Snoop were saying don't do drugs and please help stop crime instead of talking about how awesome the sticky icky and cappin mothafuckas were, I'd put a bet down that a lot of kids would be thinking before they do things.</div>Wrong. Hip hop has always had a deluge of positive rappers. White people don't want to buy that sh*t. And that's the biggest problem with hip hop. White men as a demographic are the number one priority. And the current crap on Viacom is what they seem to believe and love.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gentile @ Jul 1 2007, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wrong. Hip hop has always had a deluge of positive rappers. White people don't want to buy that sh*t. And that's the biggest problem with hip hop. White men as a demographic are the number one priority. And the current crap on Viacom is what they seem to believe and love.</div>the thing is though that the positive rappers, while they are there, are not in the culture as much as guys selling multi-plat. Oakland and Memphis are really the only places where underground guys are as popular as the mainstream guys.
