Its figurative. By burn stuff, I mean people like Antifa. Again, figuratively. Burn it all down and replace it with a system with more order. We are at the point of no return.
It's raw anger at some real injustice. I'm all for the anger part but I wish it were more controlled. Protesting the Proud Boys, yes, the destruction of property, no.
They are just bitter, angry people in general. They hate suburban white people and the upper middle class so hey, the proud boys are close enough. Bring out the bicycle locks and chains! They just needed an excuse to get away with it.
The proud boys are fucking losers too. I dont even know what they are celebrating. America? Just there to bait antifa?
I'm all for being against fascism but think about it. You’re “ANTI “insert ideology”, you show up and protest it, oftentimes violently it doesn't sound like you think those people should exist. It's not about trying to change their minds or change their ideology. It's flat out to eradicate those who hold the ideologies we don't like. I don't like the proud boys either, but I wouldn't take it to the extreme’s of violence and all that... Edit: For the record, I realize that there are jumps to this logic that aren't necessarily "facts", but I don't at all think that ANTIFA is some peaceful group that is just out there looking out for what's best for people...
I haven't seen any Nazi propaganda associated with the marches in Portland. Have there been swastikas? Literal Nazis were never scared to rep their shit. Or are we just calling all racists Nazis now?
I don't know that they are going to change their minds or ideologies regardless. That said, if Antifa didn't show up, there would be no interaction, and the proud boys and other racist groups wouldn't get the publicity they do. They would just be ignored.
I understand your point, I just dont think in this case ANTIFA or the proud boys (or whatever those idiots are calling themselves), are the “good people”.
To take a page out of my 7 year old, “he started it”. Who came first, the white supremicists or the antifa?
Fair point. If you don't confront them it normalizes what they are doing, makes it ok when it's not. I am not saying bad people shouldnt be confronted. There are ways to do that and ways not too. If both groups are downtown, they will be all over the news because the news will be waiting for them to clash, knowing it will happen. If Antifa is not there, the news will not publicize the proud boys or other racist groups.
White Supremacists But, the argument that because one came first makes the other good, isn't neccessairly a strong one.
I don't know, I think antifa would say you (and I) are not all in against fascism, or we'd be out in the street fighting fascists. Or maybe you just don't think that ideology should have power. I think that's a key distinction between the two groups. "Your ideology must be defeated" is different than "you people shouldn't exist". Nor would I, but fighting doesn't necessarily imply attempting to exterminate. I think they are doing what they think is necessary to defeat what they see as the enemy. I doubt, overall, that they are just doing it because they like violence, although no doubt there are some individuals who are motivated by that alone. Clearly their means are not peaceful. I'm not saying that I agree with either their goals or their tactics, but I think it is incorrect to dismiss them as mere thugs and vandals, or alternatively as Nazis-with-different-colored-uniforms. barfo
You guys have the sequence of events out of whack. The Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer wouldn't be here without ANTIFA and the protests that happened after Trump was elected. The Proud Boys are confronting ANTIFA and the Liberals in Portland BECAUSE of those protests. It's not like Portland was some quiet berg and the Proud Boys showed up. They saw the protests here and they saw an opportunity to fight ANTIFA.
There's a demographic in the world, not just Portland, of bored males who just need an excuse to be hooligans...go find a fight...they get worked up in groups and find a rival that's worked up in groups.….this is not a "Portland" exclusive....Hong Kong ….Gaza Strip....Southside Chicago....Berkely…Euro soccer matches....this has gone on all throughout history when there are extremely divisive politics or rivalries and it sells news....free advertising...get your face on the 5oclock news...your only chance to be seen on TV
No, they aren't. The proud boys and other neo nazi groups aren't protesting because Antifa. They are protesting because they have been made to feel comfortable. They have been emboldened by Trump. Before the election you did not see them coming out and protesting.
I disagree. I don't think these groups would be here if not for ANTIFA. I think they saw the protests in Portland and they saw a great opportunity to create conflict and fight ANTIFA. You don't go fishing where there aren't any fish.
When Antifa started directing traffic and harassing citizens is when the extreme right wingers ramp up their interest in PDX.
