Politics Can Sanders beat Trump?

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Hoopguru, Feb 2, 2020.

  1. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,836
    Likes Received:
    25,059
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
  2. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,007
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Yankee
    Location:
    Beautiful Central Oregon
    Does anyone actually believe Bernie will even live another 5 years?
     
  3. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,053
    Likes Received:
    24,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    His VP pick would be more consequential than most.

    And it's really unclear who that would be, at this point. There's nobody who is an obvious pick.

    barfo
     
    MARIS61 likes this.
  4. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,836
    Likes Received:
    25,059
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    Usually your VP is meant to shore up a weakness. So Obama picked Biden to woo the Republican-esque Democrats. Where is Bernie's weakness? HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE!!!!

    Okay, there seem to be a lot of women who find him offputting, but mainly it's because of the "Bernie Bros". People who genuinely loved Hillary (hard to believe there were such people, but there you go) loathe Bernie. And it's getting a bit like that with Warren supporters. But if (a) Warren dropped out in time, and (b) she agreed, that would be a very left-heavy ticket. But then again, can you see Bernie really tolerating a right-of-center old-fashioned Democrat? I dunno.

    Wasn't there talk of Stacy Abrams at one point? Or was that Biden?
     
  5. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,053
    Likes Received:
    24,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    Well, there's his heart...

    You are saying he's intolerant? That would be another weakness.

    I think that was for Biden, but probably she works for Bernie equally well (or poorly, depending).

    barfo
     
  6. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    If Sanders wanted to "play politics," he'd probably try to pick up someone like Amy Klobuchar as a running mate, to diversify the ticket a bit while also seeming to throw a bone to the centrists.

    It wouldn't surprise me if Sanders picked someone who's not really on the national radar that he felt better aligned with his principles.
     
  7. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,806
    Likes Received:
    5,493
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Podunk suburbs
    Bernie has a ton of weaknesses the Rep will exploit if it is a Bernie/Trump final race. It will get very ugly for Bernie.

    By and far Bernie's biggest weakness is the very platform he is running on. It is built on quicksand, and can not work. Even the DNC has said so.

    Bernie only throws the numbers around that sound good. But he fails to include the affect his changes would have by reducing the tax revenues in other areas. One example he uses is the corporate tax Amazon pays.

    Think about this. If Amazon does not pay tax on profits, where do the profits go? A. The stock holders, who then pay taxes on the profits as income, but at a higher rate than the corporate tax rate.

    Bernies plan talks about the extra taxes raised by increasing the corporate tax. But he fails to include the amount of the taxes lost by moving the profits away for stockholders income.

    Bermie's plan is so full of holes. There is a very good chance his plan will reduce total tax revenues, while seriously increasing spending. Bernies plan could turn our country into ruins.
     
  8. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,053
    Likes Received:
    24,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    Well, that isn't entirely accurate. Untaxed profits don't necessarily go to the stockholders directly. They do increase the value of the stock, maybe that is recognized by an increase in the stock price, maybe that motivates some stockholders to sell to capture gains, at which point they pay capital gains tax. The capital gains tax rate is lower than the corporate tax rate, not higher. Of course, that's the nominal rate; as we've seen the corporate tax rate can be zero, and various deductions can apply for personal taxes as well.

    Stockholders aren't forced to sell, though, so there's no guaranteed tax collection.

    barfo
     
    BonesJones and VanillaGorilla like this.
  9. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,053
    Likes Received:
    24,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    But they are all dead... Che, Chavez, Castro, Lenin, Marx, Mao...

    barfo
     
    Hoopguru and Minstrel like this.
  10. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    19,824
    Likes Received:
    23,356
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Baby Daddy
    Location:
    Chasing my kids
    haha oh my...
     
    Hoopguru likes this.
  11. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,806
    Likes Received:
    5,493
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Podunk suburbs
    Profits can affect the price of the stock. And there maybe a lower tax rate on profits from selling stocks to incourage long term investment that create jobs. But.

    You failed to explain where the profits go. (So does Bernie)

    Some of the profits are paid out to stockholders as dividends. Dividends are taxed at the same rate as wage income, not corporate tax rate.

    Some of the profit is invested back into the company to increase jobs. Jobs that create large amounts of tax revenue that supports many social programs. Increasing corporate taxes decreases job creation.

    I'm not even going to get into all of the hidden taxes businesses pays just for the priviledge on gambling large amounts of money for a better life.
     
  12. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,053
    Likes Received:
    24,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    You didn't ask me to.

    Maybe in the general case, but you specifically used Amazon as your example. Amazon doesn't pay dividends.

    No, most dividends are taxed at the capital gains rate.

    That can be. Certainly in the case of Amazon, they do invest in growth.

    Life's rough, eh? And then you die.

    barfo
     
    VanillaGorilla likes this.
  13. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,836
    Likes Received:
    25,059
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
     
  14. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    122,904
    Likes Received:
    122,900
    Trophy Points:
    115
  15. Shaboid

    Shaboid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2014
    Messages:
    10,028
    Likes Received:
    13,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I work for the government so this is pretty much what I do with my Federal taxes anyway. What a crock.
     
  16. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,806
    Likes Received:
    5,493
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Podunk suburbs
    Actually, I did ask.

    Ordinary dividend income is reported on IRS form schedule B, part II. The total is then entered on form 1040 line 3b. The dividends are added to wages as part of the adjusted gross income.

    There are some exceptions that may qualify for different tax rates, such as qualified dividends and nondividend distributions.
     
  17. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,053
    Likes Received:
    24,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    Most dividends are qualified dividends.

    And as for what happens to profits that are not paid as tax - since you asked - the company can do what they like with them.

    barfo
     
  18. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,806
    Likes Received:
    5,493
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Podunk suburbs
    Can not find any stats to confirm or debunk your first statement. IRS states to treat all dividends as ordinary untill they meet requirements to be qualified.

    Second comment. You should run for office. Bernie has nothing on you for making vague salad statements and circular arguments.
     
    Hoopguru likes this.
  19. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,053
    Likes Received:
    24,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    For regular people, the only requirement for a dividend to be qualified is for you to have held the stock for 60 days before the dividend is paid.

    Not disputing your statement here in general, but my specific statement was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth: Companies are free to do whatever they want with money they don't pay in tax. They can hire people, they can invest in equipment, increase inventory, pay the CEO a bonus, distribute it to shareholders, buy back shares, save it for a rainy day, spend it on employee healthcare, buy a corporate jet... literally anything they choose.

    barfo
     
    BonesJones likes this.
  20. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    26,638
    Likes Received:
    16,951
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Elec. & Computer Engineer OSU Computer Science PSU
    Location:
    Lake Oswego, OR
    Bernie is still light years better than Trump.
     

Share This Page