Around the NBA: February 2020

Same could be said of you only taking the partial definition of integrity to mean honesty, when part of the definition is also morality.
They both called into question the “integrity” of the game by saying the refs altered who the winner should have been. Yeah sure theres a difference in what they said one was a blown call at the end, one was saying home cooking, but they were both in the end saying the refs changed the win / loss record of the teams involved.

 

That's a good point. Dame's tirade was about an actual injustice, something that was objectively a mistake on the official's part. So the NBA sort of grimaced but took the hit. It is our fault, they are saying. We admit it. Meanwhile Paul George, per usual, is just complaining, and worse, insinuating that the refs are somehow crooked and colluding. For some reason I didn't see the distinction before, but that makes a lot of sense. Honest mistake vs conspiracy. The NBA can accept the first, but the second is detrimental to the product.

 

Heres my question though, AFAIK the rules are about criticizing the refs. Not what justifications there are.

Draymond was fined for saying they needed new refs. That wasnt saying they were all corrupt or fixing games or home cooking. Is the line well if they actually make a mistake its ok to complain about it? Because that opens it up to players posting video of blown and bad calls that happen every game and complaining about it, is that what they want?

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...ers-criticizing-refs-more-gestures-deterrents

 

I'm with you. I am amongst those that thinks the NBA should have fined Dame. I think the NBA made a mistake not fining Dame. And I actually think Dame climbed up the proverbial cross expecting a fine...

But I also think, @Minstrel has tapped into the thought process of the NBA on this one. AND I think it has to do with Dame being Magical Dame. Draymond, Paul George, Chris Paul, Russ, these guys just complain and complain and complain. They've got no credibility. Dame is so pragmatic and grounded in the way he deals with things and I think the NBA knows that. They review film. They know Dame would get an A- in honesty at the very least.

 

I'd like to see an NBA where only coaches and captains talk to the refs. Every time I go to games (you don't see this on TV), I marvel at how much the players lobby the refs during timeout and breaks and every chance they get. Lobbying sucks in all industries.

 

I think he is probably correct in the NBA’s thinking and how they processed that. Im sure the history of those guys played a role too. I just dont really like it and while I understand the distinction, man if I was a player I sure wouldnt like it. Whats the biggest thing players hate inconsistency, so lets now be inconsistent with the rules off the court too. I agree my guess is Dame himself thought a fine was coming.

 

I totally agree. The ref/player overall relationship is terrible right now. That's why I'd like the coach/captain thing. Just to change the culture. It wasn't any better when they were T-ing guys up for nothing (remember that era? Fuck that.). Because, really, it is better for
both parties to be on the same team! The better the product, the more believable the product, the better it is for all involved.

I do think it needs to be recognized that the career of referee is dependent SOLELY on the talents of the players. Having an adversarial relationship is insane and self-defeating.

SOLUTION: NBA reviews all games. Takes notes on trickery and bad calls. Talks to teams privately but openly too about details: bad call here, flop here. No ref-shaming, no player-shaming. Nothing ever to hide. The refs should be here to make sure talents are on display. When Russ or whoever flops they should be saying in these meetings "we get you want to accentuate the foul, but the acting makes us skeptical, makes it hard to call because we want to be right." It's an honest discussion between adults. The idea would be to make Marcus Smart embarrassed to win the wrong way, condemned by the PLAYERS. I think parallel goals--best, most honest product possible--takes the NBA forward. Right now it's like the refs are bad cops when they should be pillars of integrity.

 

That's how it used to be.

 

fify

 

Incoming!

 

This popped into my head recently...

Without the stars to back him up and a crummy record, how irrelevant has Draymond Green been this year?

is it just me?

 

Green is a championship level complementary player. Maybe the best one in a real long time. Better than Tayshaun Prince certainly. Probably have to go all the way back to Dennis Rodman to find a role player with Green's level of impact

 

I firmly believe critical comments about the refs should be subject to the same rule as defamation: truth should be an absolute defense. If the call was wrong, a player or coach should not be fined for saying it was wrong. OTOH, don't accuse a ref of being on the take without proof.

For the record, I don't doubt that some refs are bent. (probably players as well) There is too much money in illegal gambling for corruption to be nonexistent!

 

Shame on you.

 

Have you ever heard of Manu Ginobli?

 

I thought of him too, but he’s a weird case. Was he a legit star? He is one of the most decorated international players ever. He started sometimes, he was kind of a role player but kind of not. I can kinda see both sides to if he fits the criteria or not. Draymond and Rodman have much more similar games too.

 

I don't consider him a complementary player on those Spurs teams. Just as the Warriors had Curry-Durant-Klay, the Spurs had Duncan-Manu-Parker. He was part of their big-3 while they had guys like Bruce Bowen and Stephen Jackson in the supporting roles

 

I think Ginobili would've been a superstar if he would've had his own team.