CJ is averaging 32/9 with Dame out

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by mook, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    and yet another thread turns into a McCollum bashing. Such wonderful fans we have in this foirum.
     
  2. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig (Blazersland) I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    CJ is no Damian Lillard. He doesn't make his team better. His stats are empty just like Whitesides. Both should be gone.

    Also, what is left of this roster shows Olshey's hand. He puts his faith in young players who might have potential some long day from now in the future when Dame's door has closed and lottery picks from years ago that didn't pan out...hoping they will pan out here and now. His methods bring limited success and still haven't really paid off.
     
  3. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    A sincere, serious question: how do you rate the value of CJ compared to Dame?
     
  4. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    Dame is obviously the best player on the team. McCollum is the second best this year.
     
  5. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    Lillards is barely better.
     
  6. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    He's arguably the worst defender on the team, and Melo plays for us
     
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  7. Strenuus

    Strenuus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Mario hezonja sucks because he does. Am I a bad fan for saying that? Or is it only when its CJ/stotts/olshey?

    You'll miss the whole point of my post by saying "this has nothing to do with Mario", but you can try.
     
  8. James lamphear

    James lamphear Well-Known Member

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    I also said end last year to when CJ and Nurk was out.
     
  9. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    Last year was a completely different team as we also added Hood and Kanter to a roster that had played lots of games together. You don't see a difference between rosters and playing time this year and last year?
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  10. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    Portland is 1-3 without CJ this season. They are 1-6 without Dame

    near as I can count, since 2015-16, Portland is 13-6 with Dame leading without CJ; and they are 11-14 with CJ leading without Dame

    for some context, here are CJ's FGA's and usage rate this year without Dame:

    22 - 27.8%
    29 - 35.0%
    22 - 31.2%
    30 - 37.4%
    24 - 36.1%
    27 - 37.2%
    26 - 31.4%

    so then, CJ is averaging 26 FGA's a game when Dame is out (25.7) for 31.1 points/game. Harden leads the NBA in FGA's a game at 23 for a 34 point average. Bradley Beal is 3rd at 22.7 FGA for 30.3 points. Trae Young is 4th at 20.8 FGA for 29.8 points. Dame averages 20.4 FGA for 29.5 points

    comparing CJ without dame put another way

    points/shot:

    Harden - 1.52
    Dame - 1.45
    Young - 1.43
    Beal - 1.33
    CJ - 1.21

    normalizing those 4 other players to their scoring average if they were getting 25.7 shots a game:

    Harden - 39.1
    Dame - 37.3
    Young - 36.8
    Beal - 34.2
    CJ - 31.1

    some other players scoring average at 25.7 FGA's:

    Doncic - 36.0
    Kawhi - 34.4
    Zach Lavine - 32.8
    Tatum - 32.3
    Donovan Mitchell - 32.1
    Siakam - 32.2
    Westbrook - 31.1
    CJ - 31.1

    there would be a lot of guys on that 2nd list above CJ because of the 261 players who have played 800 minutes or more, CJ ranks 195th in TS% which tracks the points/shot number

    Now, CJ gets credit for ramping up his usage and shot attempts and actually increasing his efficiency a little; he's increased his points/shot mark without Dame from 1.14 to 1.21. If you extrapolated his TS% increasing at same rate his points.shot has, his TS% would rank 138th instead of 195th. That's notable. But his high average points/game is because he's dominating the ball at a league leading rate and using lots of possessions for his own offense.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  11. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

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    Much of the supporting cast has changed from last year. A better apples to apples comparison is this year.

    According to most everyone & every in depth statistical analysis, Dame is better then CJ. It's my opinion that CJ is at his best with the ball in his hands as a lead PG but best on this Blazers squad as the off guard. Most every 2 guard is significantly bigger then him & he really struggles switching off on SFs, but they're making the best of it. I'd welcome a trade of either for an equal talent at another position that would provide a better complimentary fit & thats been my position for many seasons now. For discussion/forum politics it seems near impossible to suggest trading Lillard but whatever. It remains clear that the team is treading water. Adding Collins and Nurk to this won't change the bottom line that whats here isn't enough to compete for a championship.

    STOMP
     
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  12. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    I can't tell if you're trolling here.
     
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  13. Mediocre Man

    Mediocre Man Mr. SportsTwo

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    It's an art
     
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  14. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    For what? Olshey won't trade him.
     
  15. BlazerBeav

    BlazerBeav Well-Known Member

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    Odd, ask Denver how empty his stats were while he beat them in the second round last year.
     
  16. mook

    mook The 2018-19 season was the best I've seen

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    I posted it because I thought the numbers were remarkable. I'm fully on board with trading him for a better fit, though.

    Interestingly, I posted the same topic on the general NBA reddit. The opinions there were largely the same as the ones here.
     
  17. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    Not even close.

    We have been playing lineups with Simons/Trent/Little/Gabriel/Caleb in non-garbage time minutes. Caleb Swanigan is on an NBA roster and has the most NBA experience among his teammates for stretches.
     
  18. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

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    CJ was still the best player on the floor. They had NO ONE who could guard Whiteside one the few times the Blazers threw the ball into him. Hassan could have had a 30/25 night without breaking a sweat. And outside of Young, Trent was as good as anyone else they had out there. They are terrible! Which is why they have the 4th worst record in the league. Just because our defensive philosophy is that of a Jr High team, doesn't mean "not even close".
     
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  19. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    But didn't we play them at their home? Their home record is better than our road record so who is the better team in that situation?
     
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  20. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

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    You know me....bigger picture and not just one game.
     

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