CJ is averaging 32/9 with Dame out

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by mook, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    92,735
    Likes Received:
    55,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Cool. Another name to add to the list!
     
  2. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    19,824
    Likes Received:
    23,356
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Baby Daddy
    Location:
    Chasing my kids
    Sorry? Not trying to be argumentative. You may be totally right that, that isnt who is or can be for a season I dont know. Its weird though because it seems like a yearly thing.

    Edit:
    Sorry just realized this was a response to someone else.
     
  3. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    16,302
    Likes Received:
    26,280
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Business Owner
    Location:
    North Plains
    Good thing you're a mod because he blocked me for less than this.
     
  4. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    34,272
    Likes Received:
    43,611
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why can't I see this post...?

    upload_2020-3-2_13-40-41.png
     
    hoopsjock likes this.
  5. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    19,824
    Likes Received:
    23,356
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Baby Daddy
    Location:
    Chasing my kids
    nuh uhh it doesn't give a choice to ignore!
     
    hoopsjock likes this.
  6. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    23,698
    Likes Received:
    36,249
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I've been called a CJ-hater several times and I certainly think CJ is overrated generally...

    that said, I don't think there's really a mystery about this. To start with CJ's usage rate is likely in the 34-35% range when Dame is out. He has the ball in his hands a ton, and that will naturally lead to more assists

    another thing is he obviously knows the burden for running the offense is on him so he focuses on getting the ball to teammates. When Dame is on the floor, he defers that duty a lot more. I do think CJ gets more hockey assists when playing with Dame, but that comes because Portland is usually running more offensive sets before breaking them off and settling for iso-offense

    but as somebody noticed above, CJ's assists seem to be 1st Q and 1st half heavy. His focus on playmaking wanes as the game goes on. That's especially true if the Blazers are trailing. That's when CJ becomes more MeJ and his vision locks in on the hoop. Like you, I question if CJ as a full-time PG on another team could maintain his numbers over a season. He certainly wouldn't average 31 points a game and he's not going to be 2nd or 3rd in the league in assists. Defenses would adjust to CJ as lead PG, and he's simply not talented enough to warrant a 35% usage rate IMO.

    still, he deserves credit for posing that level of production. And to me it's worth noting that his efficiency has actually increased a little while he's ramped up production
     
  7. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    34,272
    Likes Received:
    43,611
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think perhaps we green-names have special powers. I even have the option to ignore you!!

    upload_2020-3-2_13-44-9.png
     
  8. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    19,824
    Likes Received:
    23,356
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Baby Daddy
    Location:
    Chasing my kids
    With such great powers comes great enjoyment of the forum.
     
    PtldPlatypus likes this.
  9. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    It's true that the games without Lillard are a small sample size, but I don't think you can so quickly dismiss that a player might well have a different mentality as a starting point guard as opposed to a starting shooting guard who sometimes slides over to the 1. In the second case, McCollum could still very well see "shooting guard" as his identity, even if he's the main play-maker for a reserve-heavy squad.

    Looking at a larger sample size, for his career he has an approximately 17% Assist Rate. That's nothing spectacular, even for a shooting guard, but it's also not the Assist Rate of a black hole. Good play-making guards would probably be in the 20-25% Assist Rate neighborhood. Andre Iguodala (one of the best passing swingmen of his generation) has a career Assist Rate of about 20% (but was between 23-26% in his prime). So McCollum isn't exactly an Iguodala, but he's around what Iggy was doing in Golden State (and Golden State Iggy was hardly a score-first player on offense, but he used fewer possessions and was past his prime, which allows McCollum to catch up).

    To sum up my view, McCollum isn't a natural enough passer to be a long-term point guard but he's a much more willing passer than he's often given credit for on this forum. Yes, he shoots a lot, but he plays most of his minutes beside the ball dominant Lillard--a lot of his role is to score off Lillard's actions. I don't think his game is selfish and I think that he's at least a competent passer. He can make the normal reads and passes, but not the step-ahead reads and passes.
     
    CupWizier and oldmangrouch like this.
  10. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    24,049
    Likes Received:
    30,033
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    The jaded view about CJ around here is clouding the pure fact that with Dame down, he's playing at an All-Star level at PG. You can bitch all you want about his poor fit with Dame, his defense, the losses, but it's pretty hard to deny that his play has been stellar. The last 5 games since the All-Star break, CJ has averaged 31.8 ppg and 9 assists. Kyrie Irving in those same 5 games has averaged 30 ppg and 5 assists. Kemba Walker's last 5 games show averages of 19.6 ppg and 4.2 assists. Kyle Lowry is at 15.4 ppg and 5.4 apg. Trae Young, the Eastern Conference All-Star starter at PG, is at 27.4 ppg and 12 assists. So, CJ's play as a starting PG would put him in the mix not only to make the ASG in the East, but perhaps to start. Once in awhile, it's okay just to say "nice job", even if you would prefer to see CJ traded.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  11. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    92,735
    Likes Received:
    55,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I'm not disputing the fact that he's playing well. I'm disputing the fact that he's a point guard.
     
  12. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    14,356
    Likes Received:
    14,432
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Master of Xen Foro
    Location:
    La Grande, OR
    Surprised no one has brought up contract.

    My opinion of CJ has not changed at all this season. He's a very fine basketball player, but...........
    for 28, 30, 31, 33, and $36 mil for this and the next 4 seasons, I want better than very fine.
    His high salary has destroyed our flexibility, losing Skal is just one of many examples.
     
  13. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    24,049
    Likes Received:
    30,033
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    I think that’s a distinction without much point in today’s NBA. The role of the point guard has evolved to be much more scoring oriented than in the past. Nine assists says he distributes well enough. Considering that he’s primarily been at SG throughout his career, you’d have to think he can get better at running a team with more experience.
     
  14. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    92,735
    Likes Received:
    55,372
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I think Westbrook has proven that assists can be a hollow stat.
     
    oldmangrouch likes this.
  15. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    22,577
    Likes Received:
    34,439
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Investment Management / Financial Planner
    Location:
    Lake Oswego
    Credit where credit is due. One of my biggest issues with CJ is how inefficient he has been while chucking up so many shots. Tonight he was very good. Wish it weren't such a rare level of efficiency.
     
  16. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    24,049
    Likes Received:
    30,033
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    You may be right. The bum only got 5 assists and 5 rebounds to go with his 41 hollow points. ;)
     
    CupWizier likes this.
  17. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    23,698
    Likes Received:
    36,249
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'll admit it: I'm really not sure what 'hollow stats' means, and I'm skeptical of how you could gauge them
     
    e_blazer likes this.
  18. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2019
    Messages:
    10,713
    Likes Received:
    10,832
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Point guard is a shoot first position on a lot of teams nowadays. CJ is good enough getting his own shots that I believe he'd definitely be a good both scoring wise and passing wise if he had the ball in his hands as much as he would in that situation.
     
  19. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    22,657
    Likes Received:
    15,097
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So he passes more at the beginning of the game and looks to score later if they get behind? Sounds good to me.

    But I do agree....he is not a full-time PG.
     
  20. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2018
    Messages:
    5,300
    Likes Received:
    3,249
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I hope he ramps up his trade value. Gt2 is a better and much less expensive sg to pair with dame.
     

Share This Page