You’re absolutely right, there is no consumption that is ethical under capitalism, because there is no production that is ethical under capitalism. If workers were given recompense equal to the value of their labor, without the coercion of a boss threatening loss of employment or health care (through employment-based insurance), then products would be ethically produced, and this could be ethically consumed. I assume you’re calling for a system that allows for ethical consumption through ethical production, because otherwise it sounds like you’re just telling everyone protesting to shut up and get back to work. Like, “the system we are all in is shit but quit complaining about it” is a really defeated attitude to have, so I don’t think you’d have that. You’re not a slave, you’re free... you’re not scared of losing your job or health insurance, right?
Not really. No I don't. But like I said, I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy of tearing down a Thomas Jefferson statue because he was a slave owner, while simultaneously supporting slavery going on right now. Turning a blind eye. Isn't that what people are talking about? White washing our history? Well our American consumerism is also a black eye that will one day need to be white washed.
Agreed, hopefully capitalist consumerism will be viewed in retrospect as a mistake we learned from and moved beyond.
I suspect that in 50 years our grandchildren will ask us how we could so blindly support the mistreatment of other human beings. Much like the protests today.
Why aren't you doing something about it instead of just bitching about other people doing a little though? At least they're out doing SOMETHING to protest previous injustices.
Hopefully by then, we will have actually made progress. Everything about our current system of making and taking is abhorrent in some way or other. All we can do to justify ourselves right now is to use what we have consumed unethically towards ethical means: filming police brutality on a smartphone with the goal of abolishing it is making the best of a bad situation.
Talking about it is the first step in doing something. We can all see problems in the world, talking about them is how we find solutions.
I didn’t realize there were separate movements going on. Gtfo. The country is anti-terrorist and yet sold arms to Saudia Arabia. Pro-Life people don’t often mention capital punishment. Trump said he’d drain the swamp then hired lobbyists and the like to important posts. Yeah, no shit there are things that don’t line up well. I think you’re being silly and comparing the two is insulting and only detracting from the topic at hand.
It reads like a bad faith argument, because if you hang around leftist twitter, people are reminding us every day that “this isn’t where we end... the phone you filmed this on was made by slaves, with materials gained by slavery”... like, people who are pulling the statues down know what the fuck is up with their own culpability. But it’s one act of revolution at a time until we can finally have enough power as a collective to demand that our cell phones be made ethically. We are so powerless as workers and consumers that we just gotta start somewhere and pulling down symbols glorifying slavery is a place to start.
Good. I don't care if I insult you. If you're insulted then I'm probably talking about you. Isn't that the whole point? To feel uncomfortable right now? There are absolutely separate movements going on. Different people with different agendas. ANTIFA, anti-police brutality, black equality, or do you agree with the people who burned down a Wendy's simply because that's where a black man was shot by police?
Video shows it was one unidentified white woman who set the Wendy's on fire. What her reason for doing this is unknown at this time.
I agree with the idea that we all implicitly support slavery by not having put sufficient restraints on capitalism yet still being part of that capitalistic system. I don't agree with the idea that because we all have that culpability, we can't criticize other wrong-doing without being hypocrites.
My point is, Thomas Jefferson isn't remembered as a founder because of his owning slaves. He's remembered because of his work on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. So if we're going to tear down his statue and brand him a slave owner, how is that different from pretending that we don't all have a part in slavery today?
Maybe he should be remembered that way. And I’m saying the people who tear down the statues aren’t pretending they‘re not a part of a system built on and sustained by slavery. They aren’t missing the point. Nobody who is tearing down a statue of Thomas Jefferson thinks it is anything but a statement of future intent.
So we take all the bold and amazing things that the founders did during a time when slavery was legal and unfortunately common, and we toss out the good and only remember the bad. Meanwhile we celebrate places like Rome and Egypt and Greece because of their historical significance, while disregarding the fact that slavery played a massive role in their empires. There are good things we can take from history and bad things we can take from history. We should take the good AND the bad. Thomas Jefferson and the founders were brilliant men who helped build a country that allows us the right to protest. But to completely toss it all away seems very short sited and wrong. There has to be a middle ground.
They'r not wiping the memory of past slave owners away, just preferring to not have their names and faces on public buildings. They can still be learned about.
