OT Defunding the police, the good and the bad from a city that did it.

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, Jul 3, 2020.

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  1. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    So which Marxist ideologies should be removed from the suggestions and proposals in the link that I provided?

    I'm guessing the Marxist one you're most concerned with is number 8. The other 9 on their face don't seem blatantly Marxist but I have no problem going over each one with you to find and remove the Marxist parts so we can continue to have an informed discussion.

    upload_2020-7-3_18-28-37.png

    But number 8 seems to be the most marxist since policing for profit is capitalism.

    This is from the BLM site:

    Police should be working to keep people safe, not contributing to a system that profits from stopping, searching, ticketing, arresting and incarcerating people.
    POLICY SOLUTIONS
    [​IMG]
    End police department quotas for tickets and arrests

    Ban police departments from using ticket or arrest quotas to evaluate the performance of police officers

    (Ex: Illinois law)

    [​IMG]
    Limit fines and fees for low-income people

    Pass policies requiring local governments to:

    • ban issuing fines or arrest warrants for civilians who fail to appear in court for a traffic citation (Ex: Ferguson Policy)
    • ban generating more than 10% of total municipal revenue from fines and fees (Ex: Missouri law)
    • allow judges discretion to waive fines and fees for low-income people or initiate payment plans (Ex: Pennsylvania law)
    • prohibit courts from ordering individuals on parole or probation to pay supervision fees and other correctional fees
    [​IMG]
    Prevent police from taking the money or property of innocent people

    Prohibit police from:

    • seizing property of civilians (i.e. civil forfeiture) unless they are convicted of a crime and the state establishes by clear and convincing evidence that the property is subject to forfeiture
    • keeping any property that has legally been forfeited (instead, this property should go to a general fund)
    • participating in the federal Equitable Sharing program that allows police to engage in civil asset forfeiture
    (Ex: New Mexico law)

    [​IMG]
    Require police departments to bear the cost of misconduct

    • Require the cost of misconduct settlements to be paid out of the police department budget instead of the City's general fund
    • Restrict police departments from receiving more money from the general fund when they go over-budget on lawsuit payments
     
    SlyPokerDog, Jul 3, 2020
    #21
  2. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    It was an honest mistake. Didn't mean to single him out. My bad. I own.
     
    SlyPokerDog, Jul 3, 2020
    #22
  3. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    Good, I want my fifty bucks.
     
    Lanny, Jul 3, 2020
    #23
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  4. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    All for a free democratic society.
    Stalin & Mao’s communism suppressed and murdered millions. Because like Hitler the power wasn’t with the people but with the tyrannical government leaders that lived the high life and no one else had opportunities.
    I’m for social programs funded by tax payers but no way I’m for a form of communism.
     
    Hoopguru, Jul 3, 2020
    #24
  5. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    communism as a national system always fails....socialistic democracy is working all over the world....China isn't communist anymore nor is Russia...people are naturally capitalists...socialism keeps poverty from occurring for the disenfranchised in society and funds public services we've enjoyed all our lives in America....I'm for tolerating diversity and not creating cold wars over political ideologies
     
    riverman, Jul 3, 2020
    #25
  6. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    capitalism has been a driving force for genocide as well....Native American genocide fueled by stealing lands and murdering people..driving them off their lands...slavery...profit from abusing millions of people....we're no better in the view of history than South Africa or Australia where aboriginals were hunted for sport or many sad chapters in the world...I find it arrogant to think we've traveled some high moral road to get where we are
     
    riverman, Jul 3, 2020
    #26
  7. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    China's form of government is communist in the way it's chosen. It all leads to totalitarianism.
     
    Lanny, Jul 4, 2020
    #27
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  8. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    I always favor more freedom and responsibility for people to make their choices. I realize that it takes a great balance to keep things stable and healthy.
    For me it still comes down to freedom and liberty for people and for government to be fiscally responsible and always provide social assistance for those in need. I think people in our Country can be generous and charitable in many ways. We got to keep it going that way! Peace
     
    Hoopguru, Jul 4, 2020
    #28
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  9. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig (Blazersland) I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    283eafa9202b296d15655e3352590ce2--the-revenge-seinfeld.jpg
     
    Chris Craig, Jul 4, 2020
    #29
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  10. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    BAN THE MOD
     
    CupWizier, Jul 4, 2020
    #30
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  11. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    At least @ABM took the time to listen to this.

    Props to you!
     
    SlyPokerDog, Jul 6, 2020
    #31
  12. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    This will be my only comment of the thread because frankly, I'm sick of this shit....

    52% of our budget goes to policing... 52 FUCKING percent...

    What they want you to believe is Defund = Abolish.

    Well while over funding our police force, they've been defunding our schools for DECADES...

    They're still here...
     
    dviss1, Jul 8, 2020
    #32
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  13. Lanny

    Lanny Original Season Ticket Holder "Mr. Big Shot"

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    Exactly right.
     
    Lanny, Jul 9, 2020
    #33
  14. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    Where are you getting 52%?

    From the actual City Budget numbers, it appears the actual number is less than 10%.
    Table 5 from this report (pages 49-53) indicates that the Police received ~ $480,000,000 ($250,000,000 Police Bureau budget + $230,000,000 Fire/Police Retirement fund) from a total City budget of $5,800,000,000
    https://www.portlandoregon.gov/cbo/article/760527

    Schools is a completely different story.... The primary funding sources are from state funds (not local - like it is for police).
    From the state budget, almost 50% of the budget goes towards education.
    https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/lfo/Documents/2019-21 Budget Highlights.pdf
    upload_2020-7-9_11-33-30.png

    Please at least TRY to get the fact straight before going on a tirade...
     
    tester551, Jul 9, 2020
    #34
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  15. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    @e_blazer I read your reply about defunding.

    Give this a listen. It will explain a lot. It's not very long. Even @ABM listened to it. But to address your point in your post I don't believe BLM coined the term defunding the police.
     
    SlyPokerDog, Jul 14, 2020
    #35
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  16. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Bumped for @ABM.
     
    SlyPokerDog, Apr 19, 2022
    #36
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