And that's great. To me keeping an open mind is the only way out of this divide we keep growing. However I do not think we all agree on some of the things you noted and it has nothing to do with being evil, its a difference of ones opinion on how an individual is responsible for their own actions and not letting a universal system bail out repeated poor behavior or self inflicting pain. What I don't get is I don't hate anyone who thinks we should have universal health care, but I feel the hate come at me if I say my opinion is I don't agree with universal health care. So where is this hatred coming from and how do we quell it without completely conforming to the opposing view?
Your need to save money comes in a package that prioritizes the discrimination and oppression of millions. Your need for personal autonomy is provided in a package that doesn’t extend this autonomy to women or queer people. And if you vote for that package, you tell me that you prioritize yourself over millions, and specifically over me. How can you look me in the eye and say you’re my friend when you took the one opportunity you get to act like a friend and you spent it on my downward mobility? And I’m supposed to like you for that? Forgive you? Tolerate you? What the hell am I supposed to do with that information? You tell me if I should like you or not, if hanging out on a fucking basketball forum and going to a game together is more important to me than my rights as a human being to get medical attention without discrimination. The fucking compartmentalization I have to do to go to this forum and talk about basketball, and know that behind all of it, most people here have happily voted for a policy that actively removes rights folks like me have fought and clawed for over the course of decades... for what? A couple of laughs? A shared community? I love basketball, but I don’t know if any of this is worth the emotional toll. It you have been wondering why this forum isn’t growing, that might be why. Do I hate you? Specifically, I don’t: you’re a person who has shown personal kindness... but in the abstract of you being part of a social movement that intends my disappearance, yeah I do. Just like your hatred for me in the abstract, despite telling yourself you’re my friend specifically. How the hell am I supposed to reconcile that? Being here is a fucking emotional gauntlet, man.
but your first sentence I don't think is accurate. Its not a need for me to want to save money. Its a want for me to hold others responsible for their behavior so I don't have to pay for their repeated poor decisions. How can you look me in the eye and tell me i'm responsible to have to pay into a system that enables someone to sit on the couch and eat potato chips all day knowing someone else will pay for their health issues? To me, the only way to help you feel equal is to individualize most everything. If we blanket sweep and generalize all people who have a certain view along with others who have the same view on one topic, but a different one on another, is not going to solve anything. So when we say a group of people this large is evil,. I just don't buy that. There is no objective by conservatives to oppress or hold back minorities. There are extremes in all sects, and dems and liberals have them too, but to just generalize all as evil, well then we would need to do the same with the democratic party based on their outlying extremists as well. With that said, I would love to know which of your rights have been denied by voting republican?
I’m leaving this forum, so you will surely see yourself as morally correct, because I’m not answering your questions, which you could answer yourself if you googled. That’s fine. Whatever. I can’t convince people to care about others, and I really need to stop trying, and just focus on making inroads with my own kind, so that when things get worse, we can help each other. Basketball opinions aren’t worth this.
That happens with private insurance all the time as well. I pay in, and hardly ever use my insurance because I try to eat healthy and exercise regularly to stay in good health. So all of the money I put in to insurance, that I don't use, goes to people that actually use their insurance, and maybe they were fat and eating chips as well. I'd argue that I'd be happy for my taxes to go to national health care to make sure that everyone is covered, and so the few issues as you described can go on, as long as people not being covered, people losing their houses over medical debt, etc. is also taken care of.
Wait. Reading again, I dont buy some of the things you stated. Who is denying you medical care because of discrimination?
That is your choice and you will be missed, however I still dont agree with some of what you say. The problem is I dont hate you for it. Yet you are willing to hate me as a blanket for my opinions. It just doesnt add up.
Thats the Trump administration. Not the convervative mindeset. Also you seem to think that I voted for Trump? If so, you are wrong. And thats my issue. My conservative views have you sweeping me, or lumping me in the same box as those in the Trump admin or those that support it.
The vast majority here very much care about you. And yes, all answers can be found via google. But also a ton of BS and hateful information is out there. Maybe you could point people to some websites that you feel are the most accurate and tell the story you want people to know.
To make sure I understand you clearly, you are fine paying into the system even if a few take advantage in order to help the bulk that are actually in need? I could understand and respect that, if so. However I think we can get more detailed and still help those in need while not catering to those who arent in need other than through self infliction.
I’ve been very fortunate to have been able to travel fairly extensively around this country the past 3 years (until shut down by the ‘rona). I’ve gone out of my way to meet people of all colors and persuasions all over this country and have thoroughly enjoyed the interactions. If there is one thing I found to be almost certain, is that we’re all pretty much the same, and given “equal” opportunity we’d all get along pretty well in general. We all want the same things (decent jobs, healthcare, a roof over our heads, food on the table, respect for our personal rights, freedom from need, etc, etc, etc). The only real difference is that pretty much everyone has a different idea of how to achieve our wants and who or what is standing in the way of us achieving them. And the politicians of any stripe are bending over backwards to exploit those differences as a way of keeping us at each other’s throats so they can fleece us as we fight. Not that that it is an earth shattering revelation, but it is the politicians who are most responsible for the class divisions in this country. They can’t get elected (or reelected) if they’re seen kissing the “wrong” asses. And as long as we keep electing the same old cynical opportunists who play to our most base fears, we’ll continue the long, slow, interminable slide down the side of the toilet bowl.....we care too much about individual needs at the expense of everyone’s needs.
I think one of the reasons why is not everyones need are the same. I can agree with the politician aspect though. However us as individuals can buy in or not buy in. At a certain point we must take responsibility for maintaining their seat in office and buying into the BS fed to us to keep them there? So in that aspect, are you saying the hatred comes in part from each other still supporting the BS candidates? Because if so, then the hatred should be equal for both sides, but I don't feel that at all. IT feels mostly one sided.
For the most part, yes, I'm ok with a small bit of abuse to help the greater good. I pay into insurance currently basically out of fear something major happens to me, like another kidney stone, or another severe concussion. Absent of that, all the money I pay to a private company either goes to treat the chip eaters, or it lines the pockets of those in charge of private companies. So chip eaters get my coverage, CEOs get rich, and we still have so many uninsured, or struggling with medical bills.
@SlyPokerDog you should reach out to this person. We don’t want to lose members over all this BS being spewed on here.
I do the same out of fear. But you don't think your last sentence is part of the problem and if we make things universal, it will only be a bigger problem? Universal health care wont get rid of CEOs and chip eaters. Someone will still have to pay.
So we have CEOs and chip eaters, and no universal care, or CEOs and chip eaters and universal coverage. I think the one where everyone has coverage is certainly better than the other one, no?
