What player addition added the most wins to their team?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Jul 16 2007, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's proven more than any PG in his draft class has. He's proven he has basketball instincts and knows how to find his teammates. The thing that makes me smile is he's the youngest player on the team and is already one of the most mature.What PG in the 06 draft class is as defensively sound as him, has a nose for the ball like him and made the type of smart plays he did? I will admit though he'll never be what we hope unless he can develop a somewhat average jumpshot but that may not matter because of the type of players around him. He can just drive (which he seems do very easily) and kick out to PP or Ray Allen.I'm uploading a video of a few plays showing his basketball instincts. I'll post it in the NBA Media Section and update this post with the link.</div>Why are you comparing him to the '06 draft class so much for? That's a very easy comparison, seeing that that draft class is one of the worst in recent history.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jul 16 2007, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why are you comparing him to the '06 draft class so much for? That's a very easy comparison, seeing that that draft class is one of the worst in recent history.</div>Clearly because that's the draft class he's in...who do you want me to compare him to? Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, CP3 and Deron Williams? I'm not gonna compare him against the best PG's in the league because he isn't even close to there yet. But if you want my honest opinion he's a top 15 PG around 13-15 in the league. Defensively he's the best player in his class, period.I'm surprised your saying this because aren't you a grizzlies fan? Didn't you see the steal he made against you guys? How is that "not capable of leading a team"He didn't just show promise and potential last year, he showed that he's capable of being a starting PG for 82 games. He doesn't even need a jump shot to be a good player. Tony Parker doesn't have a jump shot, hmm that worked out pretty well for him.And I hate to use stats but I think he was top 10 in the entire league in steals per game, had six 7+ steal performances and like ten 8+ rebound performances. He's a good all around player.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Jul 16 2007, 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We all make a big deal about the big additions made during this offseason, what ones are going to payoff the most? I'm going to list the players/team, you tell me how many wins you think they add. Rashard Lewis, Orlando - Greg Oden, Portland - Ray Allen, Boston - Kevin Durant, Seattle - Zach Randolph, New York - Al Hordford/Law, Atlanta -</div>considering boston had more losses than they should've because of injury, their wins will probably increase more anyways.a better title would be which was the best addition, not which will add the most wins, because there are several other factors.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Jul 16 2007, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Clearly because that's the draft class he's in...who do you want me to compare him to? Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, CP3 and Deron Williams? I'm not gonna compare him against the best PG's in the league because he isn't even close to there yet. But if you want my honest opinion he's a top 15 PG around 13-15 in the league. Defensively he's the best player in his class, period.I'm surprised your saying this because aren't you a grizzlies fan? Didn't you see the steal he made against you guys? How is that "not capable of leading a team"He didn't just show promise and potential last year, he showed that he's capable of being a starting PG for 82 games. He doesn't even need a jump shot to be a good player. Tony Parker doesn't have a jump shot, hmm that worked out pretty well for him.And I hate to use stats but I think he was top 10 in the entire league in steals per game, had six 7+ steal performances and like ten 8+ rebound performances. He's a good all around player.</div>Rondo did show some flashes last year, I will agree with you, but the point I was trying to make was, I don't think he'll be good enough to lead the Boston Celtics to a 50 win season. 40-45 wins yes, but 50 is a little out there. The Celtics need some more depth and better defense if they want to win 50 games. When the Celtics won 45 games in 04-05, they had Gary Payton leading them at PG. While his stats weren't as great as they were in the past (12 points 6 assists), his leadership and experience was definatly there. That is something Rondo is lacking. Will he gain it? Yes, but it will take time. Paul Pierce also played every single game in the 04-05 season when they won 45 games. Since his surgery, he has missed quite a few games, which could end up playing another factor.40-45 win is more reasonable for the Celtics, but 50+ wins, I don't think so.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jul 16 2007, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Rondo did show some flashes last year, I will agree with you, but the point I was trying to make was, I don't think he'll be good enough to lead the Boston Celtics to a 50 win season. 40-45 wins yes, but 50 is a little out there. The Celtics need some more depth and better defense if they want to win 50 games. When the Celtics won 45 games in 04-05, they had Gary Payton leading them at PG. While his stats weren't as great as they were in the past (12 points 6 assists), his leadership and experience was definatly there. That is something Rondo is lacking. Will he gain it? Yes, but it will take time. Paul Pierce also played every single game in the 04-05 season when they won 45 games. Since his surgery, he has missed quite a few games, which could end up playing another factor.40-45 win is more reasonable for the Celtics, but 50+ wins, I don't think so.</div>Oh I agree, I'm sticking with my prediction I made at the beginning of last year, 43 wins. We should do a solid job, get 40-45 wins and make the playoffs with the talent of Allen, Pierce and Jefferson. We still need to add another piece or 2, vet role players (PG or C would be what I prefer) that can help to become a 50 win team.And Pierce won't miss many more games, if any next year. No way. I don't think we'll have nearly as many injury problems.http://www.bballworld.us/forum/index.php?showtopic=34102

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jul 16 2007, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Rondo did show some flashes last year, I will agree with you, but the point I was trying to make was, I don't think he'll be good enough to lead the Boston Celtics to a 50 win season. 40-45 wins yes, but 50 is a little out there. The Celtics need some more depth and better defense if they want to win 50 games. When the Celtics won 45 games in 04-05, they had Gary Payton leading them at PG. While his stats weren't as great as they were in the past (12 points 6 assists), his leadership and experience was definatly there. That is something Rondo is lacking. Will he gain it? Yes, but it will take time. Paul Pierce also played every single game in the 04-05 season when they won 45 games. Since his surgery, he has missed quite a few games, which could end up playing another factor.40-45 win is more reasonable for the Celtics, but 50+ wins, I don't think so.</div>Rondo doesn't have to lead this team to 50 wins. we're not asking him to lead us at all. Pierce and Allen will be taking over most of the leadership role. You can imagine most of the time in a halfcourt set, the ball will be in Pierce, Allen, or Jefferson's hands. Rondo is there to play solid defense and make good passes, which he can do. We're not asking him to do too much despite what his starting job and playing time might convey. and I woudln't say that Rondo is missing leadership. his only problem last year was shot selection/shooting. He was still an excellent floor leader even last year as a rookie in the second unit.

 

I'm gonna have to agree with valo and playa. I think this is a low-40-win team, and I think playa's prediction of 43 looks pretty reasonable. PrimeTime, I'm as excited about having this trio as anybody, but we still can't defend anybody and like valo said, just because it looks good on paper doesn't mean it will click (especially right away).I'm keeping a realistic prediction, saying 42-44 wins and the 6th-7th seed. Now, if we make other moves this summer (which we undoubtedly should and likely will do at least something small to fill a hole), I might tweak my prediction. I am very excited though, I really do like this core. We have our big 3 (and all of them are different players, which is a plus), we have a nice young point guard, and we have some solid role players like Gomes, Perk, and TA. Then we have our "stash away player" in Gerald Green. We need to make moves, but I am very excited.

 

Rashard Lewis, Orlando - +5 winsGreg Oden, Portland - +6 winsRay Allen, Boston - +17 winsKevin Durant, Seattle - +4 winsZach Randolph, New York - +4 winsAl Hordford/Law, Atlanta - +2 wins

 

If the Celtics make a huge change in the number of wins they had last season, not all of it will be contriubted by the addition of Ray Allen. They had a lot of injuries last season that held them back. That's why I still pick Rashard Lewis as the biggest addition.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GrizzFanTaylor @ Jul 16 2007, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If the Celtics make a huge change in the number of wins they had last season, not all of it will be contriubted by the addition of Ray Allen. They had a lot of injuries last season that held them back. That's why I still pick Rashard Lewis as the biggest addition.</div>Same thing with Memphis. Gasol was injured early in the year for a long period of time and once he came back, the Grizzlies had too many losses in the L column to even compete for the playoffs by then. Not to mention injuries to Kyle Lowry (who was playing inspired ball in the beginning of the year), Mike Miller, Damon Stoudemire, and Stromile Swift held them back, as well. Firing Mike Fratello was a bad decision on Jerry West's part at that time, but now they have Marc Iavaroni, who can implement the run-and-gun style with the Grizzlies' freak athletes: Swift, Warrick, Gay, Conley, etc. They'll be much better next year, IMO.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jul 16 2007, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I typoed Allstar center, I meant allstar PF in Jefferson. Everyone talks about how doc coaches them so poorly but they did make the playoffs under doc when they had antonie walker only and no more defense then they do now. Argueably the east was just as strong then because Miami was stronger, as was detroit, and indiana.</div><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jul 16 2007, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Al Jefferson will be on the allstar team this coming season. that is what I was implying. They have every piece they need. a swingman,superstar, and a star big man. we will see who was wrong once the season begins. Rondo will be all the pg they need under this heavy offense, add to it they have gerald green,gomes,telfair and others are the bench they are ready to make the leap, especially with a guy like ray allen who brings alot of leadership to the table.Like I said, the celtics made it to 45 wins with less talent then this team has, they are going to be a 50 win team or if not close I believe. Their only problem the past few seasons is that pierce has had to do the entire workload offensively but with 3 legit scorers that wont be a problem anymore.</div>Just because they have made the playoffs one time does not make Doc Rivers a good coach. Sure they made the playoffs that year, but they was beat in the first round by a much less talented Indiana Pacers team, that was all inury filled, and wasn't very good. The Celtics had much more talent than Indiana. As for that being a much less talented team, I completely disagree, that talent was considerably more veteran and tested than the talent they have now on the taem. They had a solid team with Paul Pierce, Raef Lafrentz, Antonie Walker, Gary Payton, a young but still decent Al Jefferson, they had a more than decent team that year. This team this year is much younger, so bad coaching is going to have much more of an effect, than it had on that more veteran team. His coaching is going to be odd, and Ray Allen and Paul Pierce are going to get played alot of minutes, because Doc Rives doesn't like resting his starters. When he does sub, they are going to be bizarre and weird substitutions like Brian Scalabrine at center, and playing small ball, that no coach in their right mind would do. That is completely going to hurt this team.As for this being a 50 win team, once again, just because you have three players that are all-star caliber out there does not make this an automatic 50 win team at all. First you have to see how the team fits, and there is always an adjustment period when it comes to this. They also have to deal with the coaching patterns of Doc Rivers, which makes chemistry even harder to build. You also have to think, with 2 other all-star scorers out there, how many touches is Jefferson going to get in the post? Are they going to make a big deal about him getting the ball so much in the post? He isn't going to be all-star material if he starts getting the ball less. Also, once again this is a bad rebounding team, a bad defensive team, a badly coached team. You can't honostly think that only scoring wins you 50 games can you? There has to be some sort of help from somewhere else, either defense, or being a good rebounding team, or being well coached. The Celtics have none of the three.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jul 16 2007, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Al Jefferson will be on the allstar team this coming season. that is what I was implying.</div> Jefferson averaged I believe, 16/11 this season, with Allen/Pierce, do you really think he's going to be able to score enough to be in the all-star game? I don't see him putting up more than that with that scoring duo. Chris Bosh, Emeka Okafor, Dwight Howard, Shaquille O'Neal, Ben Wallace, Jermaine O'Neal. Not to mention Eddy Curry or Zach Randolph...it's going to be a tough fit.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Jul 16 2007, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jefferson averaged I believe, 16/11 this season, with Allen/Pierce, do you really think he's going to be able to score enough to be in the all-star game? I don't see him putting up more than that with that scoring duo.</div>Yeah especially being a third option. No big man in the NBA could even make it in the AllStar game as a second option, let alone third to ray allen and pierce.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 16 2007, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah especially being a third option. No big man in the NBA could even make it in the AllStar game as a second option, let alone third to ray allen and pierce.</div>Did you watch how pathetic the celtics were on offense last season? They were looking for anyone to step up. Adding Allen will not take away from Jeffersons scoring. I recall several teams with 4-5 offensive weapons that still had their big man get 20+(80s celtics,80s Lakers,60s celtics,etc.)There is really nothing more to debate, we will just have to wait until the season starts to see who was right after all. Every year teams breakout, I believe the celtics will be one of those teams. They have too much talent to not and unlike teams like the nuggets(who will be good also) They can kill you from 3 different spots on the court. Pierce doesn't have to take over every game singlehandedly now and that will make all the difference.

 

I actually think the coaches will get Al Jefferson into the game, especially if he's putting up 20 and 10. They realized that Caron Butler was having the best year of his career in the NBA, and they were just glad to see him develop and improve into the player that he is today. I think Al Jefferson will receive the same treatment. Curry, Randolph, and Big Ben won't make it. There's a chance that Shaq won't make it.. he's really on the decline, who knows what how he'll do next year.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zards @ Jul 16 2007, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I actually think the coaches will get Al Jefferson into the game, especially if he's putting up 20 and 10. They realized that Caron Butler was having the best year of his career in the NBA, and they were just glad to see him develop and improve into the player that he is today. I think Al Jefferson will receive the same treatment.</div>Caron had the luck of tons of injuries to other potential all-stars, Jefferson likely won't have the same luck this up-coming season. I can see the coaches thinking about putting him on the list but him being a final cut. With Paul Pierce and Jermaine O'Neal healthy along with the recent additions of Rashard Lewis and Zach Randolph to the East, it will be very difficult for Jefferson to make the team.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jul 16 2007, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Did you watch how pathetic the celtics were on offense last season? They were looking for anyone to step up. Adding Allen will not take away from Jeffersons scoring. I recall several teams with 4-5 offensive weapons that still had their big man get 20+(80s celtics,80s Lakers,60s celtics,etc.)There is really nothing more to debate, we will just have to wait until the season starts to see who was right after all. Every year teams breakout, I believe the celtics will be one of those teams. They have too much talent to not and unlike teams like the nuggets(who will be good also) They can kill you from 3 different spots on the court. Pierce doesn't have to take over every game singlehandedly now and that will make all the difference.</div>thank you. I think having this help on the team will help Pierce in the playoffs too, because he will have been more rested throughout the season. I believe if the celtics get another solid vet, and they mesh, they can make the Eastern semi's. if they get a higher quality player then maybe the ECFs.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jul 16 2007, 09:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Did you watch how pathetic the celtics were on offense last season? They were looking for anyone to step up. Adding Allen will not take away from Jeffersons scoring. I recall several teams with 4-5 offensive weapons that still had their big man get 20+(80s celtics,80s Lakers,60s celtics,etc.)</div>You recalled teams from the 80's and 60's, those were completely different era's of basketball. Teams played at a much faster pace, so some teams would have three different players with 20 points per game on their team. In this day and age, it's not common to have three different players on one team score 20 points per game. The pace of the game is slower, and generally you might have two players on the team average 20 points per game, but you won't have three players do it. Just look at the fact, that not one team from this past year had 3 players average 20 points per game, not even the Suns, Golden State, or Washington who play at the fastest paces in the NBA. And one more thing for those teams you recalled, I hope when you recalled the 60's Celtics you are not talking about Bill Russell as the big man that scored 20 points per game. If you are, then you are wrong, as he didn't have one season scoring over 20 points per game in his career, not even during the 60's. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>There is really nothing more to debate, we will just have to wait until the season starts to see who was right after all. Every year teams breakout, I believe the celtics will be one of those teams. They have too much talent to not and unlike teams like the nuggets(who will be good also) They can kill you from 3 different spots on the court. Pierce doesn't have to take over every game singlehandedly now and that will make all the difference.</div>And like everyone else seems to know, there is more to games of basketball than just scoring. Last year the Celtics gave up on average, almost four more points per game, than they scored last year. That terrible defense has not gotten better with the addition or Ray Allen, as he is not a very good defensive player. They are still going to have a much worse defense than lots of teams in the league, and are still not going to be a very good rebounding team. Considering they aren't going to play at a pace like the Suns do, they are not going to be able to just rush off and outscore their opponents every game, and expect to win 50 games in a season. That's where things are the same between last year, and this year.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zards @ Jul 16 2007, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Same thing with Memphis. Gasol was injured early in the year for a long period of time and once he came back, the Grizzlies had too many losses in the L column to even compete for the playoffs by then. Not to mention injuries to Kyle Lowry (who was playing inspired ball in the beginning of the year), Mike Miller, Damon Stoudemire, and Stromile Swift held them back, as well. Firing Mike Fratello was a bad decision on Jerry West's part at that time, but now they have Marc Iavaroni, who can implement the run-and-gun style with the Grizzlies' freak athletes: Swift, Warrick, Gay, Conley, etc. They'll be much better next year, IMO.</div>I disagree, that was a clever move by Jerry West. When Frat was still coaching at the beginning of the year, we werent playing good defense or scoring the ball. He also wanst playing our younger guys enough and overall it was time for a change. When Gasol went down with an injury, and Warrick stepped up in the beginning of the season, it was clear the youth movement started and we would be playing up tempo. We already knew we were going to be a lotto team, we just traded for Rudy Gay and drafted Kyle Lowry...both very athletic and like I mentioned, Hak showed hes a capable starter(he was averaging 15ppg before Gasol came back). We werent ever going to accomplish an uptempo style with Frat still as our coach so he was booted and Barone came in to play uptempo where we can atleast score alot...and our younger guys got more minutes. Firing Mike Fratello was a smart move by Jerry West.Also, I just want to say is im glad Gasol broke his ankle. Yeah last season was miserable, but our future would be mediocre if he didnt break his ankle...now we got a potentially great PG, Rudys gotten more PT which helped his developement, guys like Tarence Kinsey and Hakim Warrick showed us they can play in this league(which they wouldve never had the opputunity to if EJ and Gasol wasnt injured). It was a blessing in disguise and im extremely excited about our future.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Jul 17 2007, 06:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You recalled teams from the 80's and 60's, those were completely different era's of basketball. Teams played at a much faster pace, so it was common to have three different players with 20 points per game on their team. In this day and age, it's not common to have three different players on one team score 20 points per game. The pace of the game is slower, and generally you might have two players on the team average 20 points per game, but you won't have three players do it. Just look at the fact, that not one team from this past year had 3 players average 20 points per game, not even the Suns, Golden State, or Washington who play at the fastest paces in the NBA. And one more thing for those teams you recalled, I hope when you recalled the 60's Celtics you are not talking about Bill Russell as the big man that scored 20 points per game. If you are, then you are wrong, as he didn't have one season scoring over 20 points per game in his career, not even during the 60's.</div>I was going to argue this, but I don't really know specifics about older players. As I understand, the reason behind all the huge rebound and points stats back in the day was the pace... if blocks were recorded back then, they might have been big too, I don't know.