Gary Trent poll

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What is your view of Gary Trent Jr. now?

  • He makes CJ expendable

    Votes: 30 51.7%

  • He's our starting small forward now

    Votes: 6 10.3%

  • He's part of the rotation, but the bubble was too weird to draw any further conclusions

    Votes: 18 31.0%

  • He's a franchise cornerstone

    Votes: 5 8.6%

  • He's a valuable trade asset

    Votes: 10 17.2%

  • He's a complementary piece but too limited offensively to replace CJ

    Votes: 12 20.7%

  • Trade him before we have to sign him to a big contract

    Votes: 3 5.2%
  • Total voters
    58
Rastapopoulos

Rastapopoulos

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Well? You can select more than one.

In general, did the bubble really change people's opinion of him? I know it did for me, and I'm wondering if I'm going overboard, the way people did with Bismack Biyombo that one playoffs.
 
He's too limited to 'replace' CJ offensively, but I also don't think we need to replace him. We need a 2way player at SG. Trent if functional enough offensively & dramatically better defensively to make CJ expendable.

Hes too small to be the future SF.
 
I chose too limited to replace CJ, and makes CJ expendable, which is obviously contradictory. Gary can't replace CJ's ability to create his own shot, but I think Gary could start at shooting guard for the blazers if the blazers had a SF who could handle the ball and make plays.
 
I really like Gary Trent Jr, I compared him to Wes Matthews the year he got drafted. I think the Bubble was kinda weird. He did a decent job on Lebron in the playoffs he’s not big enough for that assignment though.
He only makes CJ expendable IMO if the return for CJ is good in a trade scenario, and Im not sure it would be.
 
He’s a better overall player than CJ, but the one thing CJ does do, is super valuable. Unfortunately his contract makes him harder to trade and Olshey is in love with him, so he’s not going anywhere. So Trent is our sixth man.
 
I think he could replace CJ if he works on his handles. Defensely he better then CJ and I would give it one more year before I pull a trade on CJ.
 
I see Trent as Marcus Smart type player. The specialist you put on the opposing team's best player and expect he can get you at least 12 ppg.

He's not a starter unless you trade CJ for a really good forward.
 
So, he's obviously too limited to "replace" CJ but that's not really what we'd be talking about is it? Is he a better fit next to Dame? Yes. Can we get someone back for CJ that also fits better with Dame and along with Gary can make this team more productive? Again I think that answer is yes. So the idea that Gary would just replace CJ is not a reality... if Gary took over CJ's minutes, we would still have CJ, obviously at that point we would want to trade CJ because I don't think any of us want to be paying a sixth man 30 million a season... it would just be too big of a misallocation of cap space. CJ has value around the league as a scorer. I think we could get a lot from a team like Philly for him and I'm sure there would be other teams that need back court scoring that would be interested and possibly drive CJ's trade value up... I just don't know if Neil would ever trade him or put it out there that he could be had for the right price.
 
He has been a legit starting SF so I voted for that.

He hasn't done it for long enough to write him in for certain there, but I would go into next year with him as a certain rotational piece either starting SF or primary guy off the bench.

He doesn't have the ball handling to start at SG unless we had a Nico SF. However if he is at SF we could put a primarily defense 3 and D guy at PF as we used to with Aminu.

I think his max extension as a 2nd round pick is around 4 years 50 million so I would lock him up.
 
All I am going to say is he is good enough to give Olshey options. I doubt this is the year he exercises those options, but the next one? Possible if he continues to improve.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
He has been a legit starting SF so I voted for that.

He hasn't done it for long enough to write him in for certain there, but I would go into next year with him as a certain rotational piece either starting SF or primary guy off the bench.

He doesn't have the ball handling to start at SG unless we had a Nico SF. However if he is at SF we could put a primarily defense 3 and D guy at PF as we used to with Aminu.

I think his max extension as a 2nd round pick is around 4 years 50 million so I would lock him up.
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The only reason why people think we need so much ball handling in the starting lineup is because we iso too much and do so so so little passing. We just need willing passers and ball movement. Dame is all of the elite ball handling we need in the starting lineup. Gary has a handle and knows not to overuse it.
 
I like Trent. I was one of those beating the drum that people who kept wanting to give him away in a trade after one year were off the mark.

Now people are going to the opposite extreme. If you replaced CJ with him in the starting lineup without have a significant upgrade at the 3 or 4, I predict you'd see a hatefest that would make it look like people around here love McCollum.

He's a great competitor and as good a streak shooter as there is. That said, his shooting is streaky. He's not a guy who is going to create much if any offense for himself nor is he going to create much if any offense for teammates. He's not going to take the load off Dame bringing the ball up the floor. There's nothing in his history that indicates he's ever going to be that guy, and I don't see anything in the development of players under Stotts that leads me to believe our coaching staff is going to do much to address those weaknesses in Trent's game.

He's had success playing alongside Dame and CJ, and that's going to open up a lot if you're a 3-point shooter and embrace that role. Unless you acquire a 3 who can handle and create shots for himself, I think Gary's game would suffer substantially. Every liability he has would be amplified, really through no fault of his own. He's just not THAT guy. He can be an excellent 3-and-D player but you need either two players who are so gifted offensively so as to help free him up or you need an offensive system with a lot of ball movement and movement without the ball where the defense loses him and our passers find him. I just don't see that happening overnight.
 
Ball handing skill can be improved on by practicing. They told last year they wanted him to improve on his defense skill so he went out and did that so more likely this year he probably was told to practice his ball skill. But I don't see olshey trading CJ in the off season so expect Trent will be the first player off the bench.
 
I hope you're right, but I think, realistically, you're looking at Trent through the absolute best possible scenario.

Gary Trent was a good defensive player coming in. He played a year of college ball for one of the best defensive basketball teachers in the game. His biggest problem in his first year with the Blazers wasn't his defense, it was that he was a first year player who didn't know his role.

If developing a quality handle could be done with practice alone, then there's no reason everyone wouldn't be doing it. At this level, you have to have something to start with, and then only the most special of players can add something significant to their game or make a big step forward in one year. You have to have the raw materials, then the desire, then the instruction.

I'll gladly eat crow if I am wrong on this, but I think a lot of people are seeing what they want to be there based on five really good games in the bubble when he wasn't being called upon to be a primary scorer combined with this idea that CJ is a problem and the quickest fix to make the Blazers better is jettisoning him. I think people are going to discover it's not nearly that simple.
 
I don't think Trent can 'replace' CJ....but I do think he could do a more than adequate job filling in for him on offense, and of course would be much better on defense.

ADD to that, what we could get for CJ and combine it to what Trent could provide, and I think it would out-weigh in total, what CJ and Trent off the bench provide now.
 
TBpup said:
I don't think Trent can 'replace' CJ....but I do think he could do a more than adequate job filling in for him on offense, and of course would be much better on defense.

ADD to that, what we could get for CJ and combine it to what Trent could provide, and I think it would out-weigh in total, what CJ and Trent off the bench provide now.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, except a lot of the trades people suggest around here involving CJ undersell what we'd get back, so we aren't acquiring a player that could offset his loss, even if you think Trent reaches his absolute positive in potential.

What CJ does that is very hard to quantify is he can break down good defenders on his own and create shots for himself or for teammates ... and I'm not just saying about his passing, but he just by drawing help defense he creates opportunities for offensive rebounds and uncontested buckets at the rim that might as well be assists.

He also has shown an ability to rise to the occasion and isn't shy about taking big shots ... and making them.

Finally, his ability to be a second point guard takes pressure off Dame by allowing him to bring the ball up the floor and start the offense even against solid defense. I'm not sure you're going to get that from Trent and you definitely aren't going to get that from a player like Ant at this point.

So, you need to acquire a 3 with an above-average handle (say like a Nic Batum in his prime, at the very least) who can create his own shot when the play breaks down and likes to have the spotlight in key situations. Either than or they have to be incredibly efficient on offense and a demon on defense. That's the only way, IMO, Trent and whoever the Blazers acquire in a hypothetical CJ trade offsets dealing away CJ, and, like I said, so many people are eager to get McCollum off the team, they are taking any slightly above-average player back thinking it would be an improvement. It wouldn't.
 
CJ is very good at creating shots for himself....not so much for others. But when he had EVERY opportunity against the Lakers with Dame out and the game on the line, he went COMPLETELY SCORELESS for the last 8 minutes of the 4th quarter. No buckets, no FTs....no anything. 36 points was very nice when the Lakers were sleepwalking through the first 3 quarters of the non-Dame game.

...but then came closing time. CJ was no where to be found.
 
TBpup said:
CJ is very good at creating shots for himself....not so much for others. But when he had EVERY opportunity against the Lakers with Dame out and the game on the line, he went COMPLETELY SCORELESS for the last 8 minutes of the 4th quarter. No buckets, no FTs....no anything. 36 points was very nice when the Lakers were sleepwalking through the first 3 quarters of the non-Dame game.

...but then came closing time. CJ was no where to be found.
Click to expand...

CJ had 36 points shooting over 50%.. Yes CJ didn't carry the Blazers single handily over a Lakers defense that was focused primarily on stopping him. They trapped the hell out of him in the 4th and he made smart plays giving the ball up to open teammates. Dame hasn't done even as well as CJ in many of those same style elimination playoff games. Dame forces shots in double teams. I'd much rather have Dame and others learn to play as CJ did in that game.

It takes a number of teammates contributing to win in those playoff situations. Defenses are too good to have a plan of just one person scoring.

In that game Trent started, played 39 minutes, and without Dame when the team needed him to score made 5 shots on 38% shooting. He had a PER of 5.8 in the 2020 playoffs.

I'm positive for the future of Trent. But CJ is getting criticized and held to a standard that is ludicrous.
 
GriLtCheeZ said:
I chose too limited to replace CJ, and makes CJ expendable, which is obviously contradictory. Gary can't replace CJ's ability to create his own shot, but I think Gary could start at shooting guard for the blazers if the blazers had a SF who could handle the ball and make plays.
Click to expand...
I'm wondering how many guys does Miami have that can create their own shot?
 
SharpesTriumph said:
CJ had 36 points shooting over 50%.. Yes CJ didn't carry the Blazers single handily over a Lakers defense that was focused primarily on stopping him. They trapped the hell out of him in the 4th and he made smart plays giving the ball up to open teammates. Dame hasn't done even as well as CJ in many of those same style elimination playoff games. Dame forces shots in double teams. I'd much rather have Dame and others learn to play as CJ did in that game.

It takes a number of teammates contributing to win in those playoff situations. Defenses are too good to have a plan of just one person scoring.

In that game Trent started, played 39 minutes, and without Dame when the team needed him to score made 5 shots on 38% shooting. He had a PER of 5.8 in the 2020 playoffs.

I'm positive for the future of Trent. But CJ is getting criticized and held to a standard that is ludicrous.
Click to expand...

Where was the criticism? Merely the factual stating of what happened. Not one single point in the last 8 minutes of the game when it really mattered. Trap or no trap, create contact, get a FT....something. But that's not what happened. All the rest is just opinion and conjecture.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
I haven't seen much of that besides driving to the basket, which I don't consider creating a shot.
Click to expand...

Maybe you haven't seen much of the Heat, then. A layup is a shot too, and being able to manufacture an ability to get to the rim is one of the best skills an offensive player can possess.

Creating one's own shot is being able to make enough separation off the bounce to get a clean look without needing a screen. It involves being able to both get to the rim or get space for a jump shot. I saw examples of all three doing this multiple times in the Heat's last two games.

All three of these guys do this, maybe not at McCollum's level of craftiness with the dribble, but all of them do this. Butler does it with size and strength, pushing a defender into the paint, giving a bump and either going around them to the rim or fading away with the jumper. Dragic is just a crafty, solid, all-around offensive player who can get to the rim off the cross, shoot at effective runner, or stop on a dime and pull up from midrange, and his effectiveness of this makes you have to respect his 3-point shot.

Herro's the most like CJ of the 3. Changes direction very well with the dribble and has a big stride step that he can use out to 3-point range or to get his defender off balance allowing him to attack the paint or the rim.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Click to expand...

I rather have Trent than Dort. Dort may be a little better defender than Trent but he’s no where near as a legit of a shooter as Trent is. I would actually like to see advanced stats of defense if someone know where to get that info. Trent is still improving in certain aspects of his offense and even defense. Dort of course can still improve but as of right now Trent is better and I rather have him for the future
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Click to expand...

Pretty obviously Gary. I was suspicious about one thing though, did they play similar minutes per game? The answer is yes they did, Dort played about a minute per game more than Gary so that's virtually the same. The one difference is Cary played in about twice as many games so that could be an advantage for Gary. Their measurements and athleticism at their respective combines were virtually identical. It will be interesting to see how they both progress. The one advantage that Dort may have is if the Thunder trade CP3 Dort will likely get the starting spot next to SGA in the back court. Those two are a great match for each other, while we will most likely keep CJ, limiting both Trent's progress and our team's success.
 
blazerkor said:
Pretty obviously Gary. I was suspicious about one thing though, did they play similar minutes per game? The answer is yes they did, Dort played about a minute per game more than Gary so that's virtually the same. The one difference is Cary played in about twice as many games so that could be an advantage for Gary. Their measurements and athleticism at their respective combines were virtually identical. It will be interesting to see how they both progress. The one advantage that Dort may have is if the Thunder trade CP3 Dort will likely get the starting spot next to SGA in the back court. Those two are a great match for each other, while we will most likely keep CJ, limiting both Trent's progress and our team's success.
Click to expand...
Kudos for managing to bring CJ-and-Olshey bashing into a discussion about Trent vs. Dort. Inspired work!
 
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