Not exactly sure if this should be here or in the draft prospects section, but I wanna raise a question. Do you all believe that the draft classes of now (2000's) are just not as good as the ones in the 90s? In terms of all 5 positions. Shaq was probably the best draft pick to the 90's and right now it looks as if LeBron will be the best of this decade (Greg Oden might end up being better). Nowadays we don't see as many pure centers and point guards as we used to, etc. Any thoughts, discussions on this insight?
It takes a while for players to develop these days because they're drafted so young. Wait a few years and see if there are just as many stars drafted in the 2000s. Also, it could be that after a decade with a strong draft class it's tough for new draftees to make a name for themselves since they're playing against last decade's draftees in their primes.Since the NBA level of play has been rising for the last two or three years it stands to reason that the draft classes have been above average.
every decade has great and awful drafts.the 2000's draftees have been slow to develop because of the infusion of HS players (although not any more) and european players (GM's drafted them based on potential and got stung more than they hit gold)we've seen some very good drafts (Bosh,Wade,Mello,LeBron) too.All in All it balances.the 90's had some gawd awful basketball and some horrible drafts too.
The 2003 Draft really just saved the NBA IMO. If it werent for the 2003 draft, Toronto, Miami, Cleveland, and possibly Chicago would be totally out of contention. Leaving the East in shackles. People dont look at it that way, but the 2003 draft was a life saver for the NBA. Also, the Nets wouldnt have received VC if Bosh wasnt drafted, and they wouldnt be contenders eithier. Leaving the East to detroit for the next 10 years. Thats why im grateful for that draft.
Anybody thought that the new HS rule would just hurt the NBA even more? A lot of the NBA's current superstars are former straight-out-of-HS draftees...Garnett, LeBron, Stoudamire...I think it's early to make a judgement on the HS question, but I think it won't help in the long run either way.
The NBA culture of the 90s is looking like it ran its full effect. previously players entering the NBA lacked something, be it defense, attitude, IQ whatever, these players didnt have it. and it wasn't because they didnt goto college, its because everyone wanted to be the star, and when they weren't the star they caused problems. than the Stars were still lacking something, what made the NBA great in the 80s and 90s was the stars like Jordan, Hakee, Bird, Magic, Malone were great both offensively and defensively. how many of the players drafted from 2000-on ward can you say that about? Now its starting to change as it looks like some guys like Oden will be solid players on both sides of the ball. but the next few generations could still be flawed in many kids still dont understand to be a truely great player you have to be great on both sides of the ball.
I think draft classes are just as good now as they were in the 90s. Every decade will have it's good drafts and it's bad drafts. So far in the 2000s, there has been 1 really good draft class that we can say for certain, and that is of course the 2003 draft. If this years 2007 draft class lives to it's hype, it should be right up there as well.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (redneck @ Jul 24 2007, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The NBA culture of the 90s is looking like it ran its full effect. previously players entering the NBA lacked something, be it defense, attitude, IQ whatever, these players didnt have it. and it wasn't because they didnt goto college, its because everyone wanted to be the star, and when they weren't the star they caused problems. than the Stars were still lacking something, what made the NBA great in the 80s and 90s was the stars like Jordan, Hakee, Bird, Magic, Malone were great both offensively and defensively. how many of the players drafted from 2000-on ward can you say that about? Now its starting to change as it looks like some guys like Oden will be solid players on both sides of the ball. but the next few generations could still be flawed in many kids still dont understand to be a truely great player you have to be great on both sides of the ball.</div>And you're right; you just don't see many dual-talented players in the draft anymore. They no longer have the complete package. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I think draft classes are just as good now as they were in the 90s. Every decade will have it's good drafts and it's bad drafts. So far in the 2000s, there has been 1 really good draft class that we can say for certain, and that is of course the 2003 draft. If this years 2007 draft class lives to it's hype, it should be right up there as well.</div>Well lets step back and take a look: Here are some of the superstars to come out of the 90's classes.- Gary Payton 1990- Shaquille O'Neal 1992- Jason Kidd 1994- Alonzo Mourning 1992- Grant Hill 1994- Kevin Garnett 1995- Juwan Howard 1994 (He actually did do very well coming out the gate)- Allen Iverson 1996- Tim Duncan 1997- Kobe Bryant 1996- Paul Pierce 1998- Dirk Nowitzki 1998I chose those guys specifically because they had an impact on their teams/the NBA as a whole either immediately or within a year or 2, to be more fair in the comparison with this decade. Switch to this decade:- Zach Randolph 2001 (Tough call to make, but he BURST onto the scene a few years back)- Jason Richardson 2001- Gilbert Arenas 2001 - Yao Ming 2002- Amare Stoudamire 2002- LeBron James 2003 (We all know he's the best 1st overall in this decade currently)- Dwyane Wade 2003- Carmello Anthony 2003- Chris Bosh 2003- Dwight Howard 2004So, I would say that the 90's classes currently have the edge over the 2000's classes simply because of the spectrum of different players available. They had good big men and perimeter players; from Shaq and Mourning to TD and Dirk in the post to Iverson and Grant Hill and Paul P on the perimeter. Nowadays, players tend to be more abundant along the perimeter rather than in the post.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noballer07 @ Jul 24 2007, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Anybody thought that the new HS rule would just hurt the NBA even more? A lot of the NBA's current superstars are former straight-out-of-HS draftees...Garnett, LeBron, Stoudamire...I think it's early to make a judgement on the HS question, but I think it won't help in the long run either way.</div>Actually I disagree, the age limit has already had a tremendous affect on the professional league by sending superstar high school players through the NCAA spotlights for a year. It has made the draft better already and will increase fan interest as more Oden and Durant's filter through the college system. Even though Stern has made some questionable judgements over his long tenure, this one has turned out an immediate success story.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 24 2007, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The 2003 Draft really just saved the NBA IMO. If it werent for the 2003 draft, Toronto, Miami, Cleveland, and possibly Chicago would be totally out of contention. Leaving the East in shackles. People dont look at it that way, but the 2003 draft was a life saver for the NBA. Also, the Nets wouldnt have received VC if Bosh wasnt drafted, and they wouldnt be contenders eithier. Leaving the East to detroit for the next 10 years. Thats why im grateful for that draft.</div>I agree with what you said but at which point have the nets been contenders since after the 03' draft?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noballer07 @ Jul 24 2007, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And you're right; you just don't see many dual-talented players in the draft anymore. They no longer have the complete package. Well lets step back and take a look: Here are some of the superstars to come out of the 90's classes.- Gary Payton 1990- Shaquille O'Neal 1992- Jason Kidd 1994- Alonzo Mourning 1992- Grant Hill 1994- Kevin Garnett 1995- Juwan Howard 1994 (He actually did do very well coming out the gate)- Allen Iverson 1996- Tim Duncan 1997- Kobe Bryant 1996- Paul Pierce 1998- Dirk Nowitzki 1998I chose those guys specifically because they had an impact on their teams/the NBA as a whole either immediately or within a year or 2, to be more fair in the comparison with this decade. Switch to this decade:- Zach Randolph 2001 (Tough call to make, but he BURST onto the scene a few years back)- Jason Richardson 2001- Gilbert Arenas 2001 - Yao Ming 2002- Amare Stoudamire 2002- LeBron James 2003 (We all know he's the best 1st overall in this decade currently)- Dwyane Wade 2003- Carmello Anthony 2003- Chris Bosh 2003- Dwight Howard 2004So, I would say that the 90's classes currently have the edge over the 2000's classes simply because of the spectrum of different players available. They had good big men and perimeter players; from Shaq and Mourning to TD and Dirk in the post to Iverson and Grant Hill and Paul P on the perimeter. Nowadays, players tend to be more abundant along the perimeter rather than in the post.</div>For the 90's I would add Derrick Coleman and Larry Johnson. DC had some very good years when he felt like applying himself. LJ got screwed by injuries but was an all-star and solid after the back issues with the Knicks. Both were better than Howard IMO.Also add:Mutombo (top 5 all time defensive center)Chris WebberGlenn RobinsonRay AllenSteve NashBillupsT-MacVince CarterAntwan JamisonElton BrandBaron DavisShawn MarionLamar OdomFor the 2000's you have to add Chris Paul and Derron Williams. By 2009 Al Jefferson will deserve to be on that list too, as will Durant, Brandon Roy and Oden and perhaps Bargnani.so the 2000 drafts have time to see how many stars will appear. the 90's have been dun for 7 years, it's easier to assess.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noballer07 @ Jul 24 2007, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And you're right; you just don't see many dual-talented players in the draft anymore. They no longer have the complete package. Well lets step back and take a look: Here are some of the superstars to come out of the 90's classes.- Gary Payton 1990- Shaquille O'Neal 1992- Jason Kidd 1994- Alonzo Mourning 1992- Grant Hill 1994- Kevin Garnett 1995- Juwan Howard 1994 (He actually did do very well coming out the gate)- Allen Iverson 1996- Tim Duncan 1997- Kobe Bryant 1996- Paul Pierce 1998- Dirk Nowitzki 1998I chose those guys specifically because they had an impact on their teams/the NBA as a whole either immediately or within a year or 2, to be more fair in the comparison with this decade. Switch to this decade:- Zach Randolph 2001 (Tough call to make, but he BURST onto the scene a few years back)- Jason Richardson 2001- Gilbert Arenas 2001 - Yao Ming 2002- Amare Stoudamire 2002- LeBron James 2003 (We all know he's the best 1st overall in this decade currently)- Dwyane Wade 2003- Carmello Anthony 2003- Chris Bosh 2003- Dwight Howard 2004So, I would say that the 90's classes currently have the edge over the 2000's classes simply because of the spectrum of different players available. They had good big men and perimeter players; from Shaq and Mourning to TD and Dirk in the post to Iverson and Grant Hill and Paul P on the perimeter. Nowadays, players tend to be more abundant along the perimeter rather than in the post.</div>Draft classes don't just devlop overnight. Give it some time and you'll see similar results from the '00s draft classes. Like you said, you picked some of the '90s players because they had immediete impacts, but so did players like LeBron, Wade, and Carmelo. Give the 2000 decade draft classes some more time to develop, then lets make this comparison.
The center position is nearly extinct, we know that, but I don't know why you brought up point guards. In 05 we had Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Raymond Felton come out together. Two of those are already All-Star caliber and are only going up, and Felton is on the rise to be one of the best guards in the East. Then you have some other outstanding players at the 1 that have come out recently in Kirk Hinrich, Tony Parker, T.J. Ford, etc. Mike Conley Jr. could be a star point guard as well. I think we have a lot of good point guards in the league, and some stars at the position who have come out in this decade, to go along with other potential stars down the line.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jul 25 2007, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The center position is nearly extinct, we know that, but I don't know why you brought up point guards. In 05 we had Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Raymond Felton come out together. Two of those are already All-Star caliber and are only going up, and Felton is on the rise to be one of the best guards in the East. Then you have some other outstanding players at the 1 that have come out recently in Kirk Hinrich, Tony Parker, T.J. Ford, etc. Mike Conley Jr. could be a star point guard as well. I think we have a lot of good point guards in the league, and some stars at the position who have come out in this decade, to go along with other potential stars down the line.</div>Meh, I just put that in as idle talk, hadn't realized I added point guard. We're not focusing on single positions here, but decade draft classes as a whole...
