Game Thread GAME# 40: PELICANS @ BLAZERS - MARCH 18, 2021 - THURSDAY, 7:00, NBCSNW

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

Who are the 2 most clutch players in NBA history?

  • Total voters
    48
  • Poll closed .
Darkwebs

Darkwebs

Awakened to emptiness
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
26,917
Likes
22,490
Points
113



PQBuHmg.png


2020-21 REGULAR SEASON RECORD
NEW ORLEANS PELICANS
17 - 23
(5-13 Road)
PORTLAND TRAIL BLAZERS
23 - 16
(12-7 Home)

_____________________________
---------PROBABLE STARTERS---------


---- NEW ORLEANS PELICANS ----
i
i

LONZO BALL (PG) , ERIC BLEDSOE (SG)

i
i

BRANDON INGRAM (SF) , ZION WILLIAMSON (PF)

i

STEVEN ADAMS (C)

----PORTLAND TRAIL BLAZERS----
i
i

DAMIAN LILLARD (PG) , C.J. McCOLLUM (SG)

i
i

DERRICK JONES Jr. (SF) , ROBERT COVINGTON (PF)

i

ENES KANTER (C)


------------------------------------------------------

------- JERSEYS -------
tYJdXTjl.png
---
VeT1BNXl.png


--------------------------------------------------------------


WHEN: 7:00 PM (PDT), THURSDAY, 3/16/2021

WHERE: Moda Center, Portland, OR
nc_fc_102820.jpg



TV BROADCAST:
DKp7YU9.png


RADIO BROADCAST:
iFl5dde.png



-----------------------------------------------------------------



--------------BENCH--------------

---- NEW ORLEANS PELICANS ----
i
i

LEWIS Jr. , HART
i
i

THORNWELL , ALEXANDER-WALKER
i
i
i

MARSHALL, , GABRIEL , MELLI
i
i
i

MAGNEY , HERNANGOMEZ , HAYES

---- PORTLAND TRAIL BLAZERS ----
i
i
i

SIMONS , BLEVINS , TRENT
i
i
i

ELLEBY , LITTLE , HOOD
i

ANTHONY



INJURIES
PELICANS
JJ Redick (right heel soreness): OUT
TRAIL BLAZERS
Harry Giles (left calf strain): QUESTIONABLE
Jusuf Nurkic (right wrist fracture): OUT
Zach Collins (left ankle stress fracture): OUT



HEAD COACHES
1639.jpg
- VS –
6710.jpg

STAN VAN GUNDY --- TERRY STOTTS



:reading:OFFICIAL PELICANS' GAME NOTES
:reading: OFFICIAL BLAZERS' GAME NOTES ​

• HEAD-TO-HEAD HISTORY:
ALL TIME: Trail Blazers lead, 35-29
PORTLAND HOME: Trail Blazers lead, 22-10
NEW ORLEANS HOME: Pelicans lead, 19-13
Click to expand...





s3MvltZ.png
 
Darkwebs said:
DAMIAN LILLARD

That is all.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately this is an accurate description of our team. We're so lucky to have Dame. We're also lucky to have talent like CJ, Nurk and the rest of our team but the talent doesn't fit together. Is that a Stotts thing most definitely somewhat but it's also trying to fit some round pegs in square holes.

This accurate description of our team is the fault of Olshey. The vast majority of our wins have been because of Dame and almost every loss goes on Olshey.
 
blazerkor said:
Unfortunately this is an accurate description of our team. We're so lucky to have Dame. We're also lucky to have talent like CJ, Nurk and the rest of our team but the talent doesn't fit together. Is that a Stotts thing most definitely somewhat but it's also trying to fit some round pegs in square holes.

This accurate description of our team is the fault of Olshey. The vast majority of our wins have been because of Dame and almost every loss goes on Olshey.
Click to expand...

I've been trying to explain to myself how we're 17-18 without Dame during his career. The win percentage seems much higher than I would think.

Curious on your thoughts to how our record is so good without him and another all-star to carry the load.
 
I know Dame hasn't been in championship series but I just think it's him and MJ. When Horry gets mentioned or if Chauncey was on there I don't really like it. Horry especially never felt the weight of an entire team when he made those shots, this goes for Ray Allen too even though his game was brilliant. Steph is a great shooter but I just watched all of his so called buzzer beaters and the guy's resume is lacking. Melo hit some cold blooded shit but his resume is also lacking. Roy scored a lot of clutch points but didn't have many game winners... a lot of shots that sent games into OT but still didn't have the resume.

Bryant and Bird in whatever order are my next two. Kobe did have the luxury of Shaq being with him for the biggest clutch plays of his career... that helps a lot but Kobe was so sick when the game was on the line as was Larry Legend. No one besides Jordan and Dame, from all of the film I've seen, have had the audacity to wait until that last second or two to crush opponents without a doubt and do it over and over again.
 
Tince said:
I've been trying to explain to myself how we're 17-18 without Dame during his career. The win percentage seems much higher than I would think.

Curious on your thoughts to how our record is so good without him and another all-star to carry the load.
Click to expand...
Because almost all of those games have been with CJ in and without Dame holding CJ down, CJ is a badass. Their games just don't work well together. How is it that two guys are such close friends, seemingly great teammates but haven't developed any kind of two man game after six seasons... they just can't, they're too redundant. Plus when they don't have to play together there isn't as big of a gaping hole in our defense... I put most of that on Stotts but some of it goes on that back court combo on D.
 
blazerkor said:
Because almost all of those games have been with CJ in and without Dame holding CJ down, CJ is a badass. Their games just don't work well together. How is it that two guys are such close friends, seemingly great teammates but haven't developed any kind of two man game after six seasons... they just can't, they're too redundant. Plus when they don't have to play together there isn't as big of a gaping hole in our defense... I put most of that on Stotts but some of it goes on that back court combo on D.
Click to expand...

So you think Dame or CJ are nearly interchangeable? CJ is a top 10-15 NBA player w/out Dame?

I agree they have similar skill sets, but I feel like the difference between Dame and CJ is fairly significant. Our record w/out Dame really surprises me; especially if we're too give Dame credit for 90% of our wins. Our win percentage only goes down like 8% w/out him.
 
Tince said:
So you think Dame or CJ are nearly interchangeable? CJ is a top 10-15 NBA player w/out Dame?

I agree they have similar skill sets, but I feel like the difference between Dame and CJ is fairly significant. Our record w/out Dame really surprises me; especially if we're too give Dame credit for 90% of our wins. Our win percentage only goes down like 8% w/out him.
Click to expand...
I'll handle your questions and statements one at a time.

CJ and Dame are redundant not interchangeable... Dame is way better than CJ. Without Dame, CJ is like a top 20 guard... not player but guard. I don't think he's a top 20 guard right now... offensively yes but then we have to take into consideration the other side of the ball. I was giving Dame credit for a "vast majority" of our games like way more than 50% so maybe 60-70% but not 90%. Other guys step up all of the time.

As far as the actual numbers go... your incredible over simplification of games without Dame compared to games with Dame, doesn't paint any sort of clear picture of his impact. I thought, maybe if I knew the seasons that they were in I would get a better understanding so I looked it up.

2015-16 season 7 games missed (gm), overall win percentage 53.7% (.537)
2016-17, 7 gm, .500
2017-18, 9 gm, .598
2018-19, 2 gm, .646
2019-20, 8 gm, .473

First that's only 33 games missed total and your stat of 17-18 means he missed 35... that's kind of suspect but lets get down to brass tacks.

Last season Dame missed 8 of 74 games, last season was terrible, we had a losing record for the first time since Dame's rookie season but is that really context enough? I don't know the strength of schedule in the games Dame missed or more importantly the teams that were rolled out in those 8 games. I'm sorry but because it is so arbitrary I didn't even look up which games were wins and losses in that season and how it compared to that season's overall results but that wouldn't matter because it's still such a muddled picture.

The fact is a 35 game sample size out of 712 games in Dame's career is very limited. Then you take into consideration just how much putting those numbers up lacks nuance and you get into a much much bigger problem. 17 wins and 18 losses without Dame (which isn't even an actual number unless I'm missing 2 games which I'm not) is indicative of nothing without a ton of context... a ton. All I know is that when Dame has been out CJ has put up all star numbers but that is a pretty limited sample size of his career too. So I'm guilty as well. Regardless, let's not be silly and pretend that any of us think that Dame is only responsible for an 8% uptick in wins.
 
Tince said:
I've been trying to explain to myself how we're 17-18 without Dame during his career. The win percentage seems much higher than I would think.

Curious on your thoughts to how our record is so good without him and another all-star to carry the load.
Click to expand...
Because the rest of our roster isnt as trash as people usually think.
 
blazerkor said:
I'll handle your questions and statements one at a time.

CJ and Dame are redundant not interchangeable... Dame is way better than CJ. Without Dame, CJ is like a top 20 guard... not player but guard. I don't think he's a top 20 guard right now... offensively yes but then we have to take into consideration the other side of the ball. I was giving Dame credit for a "vast majority" of our games like way more than 50% so maybe 60-70% but not 90%. Other guys step up all of the time.

As far as the actual numbers go... your incredible over simplification of games without Dame compared to games with Dame, doesn't paint any sort of clear picture of his impact. I thought, maybe if I knew the seasons that they were in I would get a better understanding so I looked it up.

2015-16 season 7 games missed (gm), overall win percentage 53.7% (.537)
2016-17, 7 gm, .500
2017-18, 9 gm, .598
2018-19, 2 gm, .646
2019-20, 8 gm, .473

First that's only 33 games missed total and your stat of 17-18 means he missed 35... that's kind of suspect but lets get down to brass tacks.

Last season Dame missed 8 of 74 games, last season was terrible, we had a losing record for the first time since Dame's rookie season but is that really context enough? I don't know the strength of schedule in the games Dame missed or more importantly the teams that were rolled out in those 8 games. I'm sorry but because it is so arbitrary I didn't even look up which games were wins and losses in that season and how it compared to that season's overall results but that wouldn't matter because it's still such a muddled picture.

The fact is a 35 game sample size out of 712 games in Dame's career is very limited. Then you take into consideration just how much putting those numbers up lacks nuance and you get into a much much bigger problem. 17 wins and 18 losses without Dame (which isn't even an actual number unless I'm missing 2 games which I'm not) is indicative of nothing without a ton of context... a ton. All I know is that when Dame has been out CJ has put up all star numbers but that is a pretty limited sample size of his career too. So I'm guilty as well. Regardless, let's not be silly and pretend that any of us think that Dame is only responsible for an 8% uptick in wins.
Click to expand...
You dont think CJ is a top 20 guard? What 20 do you have ahead of him?
 
BonesJones said:
You dont think CJ is a top 20 guard? What 20 do you have ahead of him?
Click to expand...
First of all I'm talking about production, not talent/skill. Dame, Steph, Harden, Kyrie, Jrue, Russ, Beal, Donovan Mitchell, Booker, CP3, Ja, Oladipo, Trae, LaVine... the rest of the list has questions but I do think that they are putting out more than CJ because of what Dame does to CJ's game... Collin Sexton, De'Aaron Fox, Jamal Murray, Klay, Jaylen Brown who is listed as a SG but is playing SF, Luca who is listed as a PG but is a SF, Ben Simmons listed as a PG but plays a lot of PF.

The fact is when you look at CJ's offensive numbers points, assists and assists to turnovers they aren't that overwhelming and we know his defense is not good. If he was the main perimeter offensive player on a team he would probably be getting better than he was at the start of this season but that start is a aberration when playing next to Dame. I guess we'll see but to say that he's not a top 20 guard is at least a very close call.
 
blazerkor said:
Unfortunately this is an accurate description of our team. We're so lucky to have Dame. We're also lucky to have talent like CJ, Nurk and the rest of our team but the talent doesn't fit together. Is that a Stotts thing most definitely somewhat but it's also trying to fit some round pegs in square holes.

This accurate description of our team is the fault of Olshey. The vast majority of our wins have been because of Dame and almost every loss goes on Olshey.
Click to expand...
*The vast majority of our wins have been because of Dame and almost every loss goes on Stotts.
 
Of course we are all interested in how this one is going to start. You gotta wonder if the Blazers are going to come right out and start trapping and doubling right off the bat? You got to wonder if Stotts will make Van Gundy pay for playing Adams again?
You have to wonder if the rotations change a bit. Obviously the Blazers would like to shoot lights out and put this team away early.

Remember they have Dallas coming in on Friday and Lillard just stole one from them also when Luka missed his wide open look on a breakdown on defense in the last seconds. Winning this game would go a long ways into creating a better feel for the next game.
 
stampedehero said:
*The vast majority of our wins have been because of Dame and almost every loss goes on Stotts.
Click to expand...
Which circles back to Olshey. The guy has the ability to fire Stotts and hasn't for all of this time. Olshey is the one that has settled for the longest tenure in the history of the NBA for a coach that hasn't won a single game in the WCF. That's on Olshey. Obviously I blame Stotts but I can't help but blame the guy who won't get rid of him.
 
blazerkor said:
Which circles back to Olshey. The guy has the ability to fire Stotts and hasn't for all of this time. Olshey is the one that has settled for the longest tenure in the history of the NBA for a coach that hasn't won a single game in the WCF. That's on Olshey. Obviously I blame Stotts but I can't help but blame the guy who won't get rid of him.
Click to expand...
The guy in charge is always the one who must face the consequences.
 
wonder what changes terry will come up with to our game plan.

guessing none
 
stampedehero said:
The guy in charge is always the one who must face the consequences.
Click to expand...
All that I hope at this point is that if he does make a move in the next eight days that it won't lower the overall trade value that's on this team. That's it. We will ride the season out with most of what we have and at the end of the season barring further significant injuries there should be praise heaped on Olshey if we've gone the furthest we've gone with Dame or he should be gone. That's all I care about.
 
illmatic99 said:
wonder what changes terry will come up with to our game plan.

guessing none
Click to expand...
I would expect it to be up to SVG to come up with the change. Stotts made an adjustment. It's now up to the Pels to either try to shoot lights out again or do something about what the Blazers know worked against them.
Terry will push Ingram further out and hit him with traps and doubles. They will collapse on Williams when he gets the ball and try to keep him from getting the first step. This will leave a shooter open but they will have to rotate and move to try and disrupt a shot. If they can make someone other than Ingram and Zion beat them they will win this game.
The Blazers also will need to shoot better from all over the court and get some offensive boards if they miss.

Edit- The Blazers are lucky Redick is out.
 
blazerkor said:
I know Dame hasn't been in championship series but I just think it's him and MJ. When Horry gets mentioned or if Chauncey was on there I don't really like it. Horry especially never felt the weight of an entire team when he made those shots, this goes for Ray Allen too even though his game was brilliant. Steph is a great shooter but I just watched all of his so called buzzer beaters and the guy's resume is lacking. Melo hit some cold blooded shit but his resume is also lacking. Roy scored a lot of clutch points but didn't have many game winners... a lot of shots that sent games into OT but still didn't have the resume.

Bryant and Bird in whatever order are my next two. Kobe did have the luxury of Shaq being with him for the biggest clutch plays of his career... that helps a lot but Kobe was so sick when the game was on the line as was Larry Legend. No one besides Jordan and Dame, from all of the film I've seen, have had the audacity to wait until that last second or two to crush opponents without a doubt and do it over and over again.
Click to expand...
This guy would disagree with you about Kobe:
"Kobe Bryant has not made a single clutch shot in the final five seconds of a game in almost three years. Thirteen straight misses, which if you like sound effects goes something like BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG. BONG.

If you expand the definition of clutch to include the last five minutes of a game with the margin at five points or less, it does not help. This is generally referred to as "crunch time." Some announcers have been known to call it "Kobe Time." In "Kobe Time," our protagonist is shooting 35 percent this season. That is the fifth lowest figure among 22 high-frequency crunch-time shooters. For comparison's sake, Monta Ellis is at 56 percent on such shots this season."
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/1/3/7485611/kobe-bryant-clutch-lakers-data

Also: "In the final 24 seconds of the game, in shots to take the lead, Kobe is a career 36/115 FG (31.3%). This seems to prove the fact that Kobe is indeed not clutch.Jun 20, 2017"
 
Last edited:
kjironman1 said:
I would expect it to be up to SVG to come up with the change. Stotts made an adjustment. It's now up to the Pels to either try to shoot lights out again or do something about what the Blazers know worked against them.
Terry will push Ingram further out and hit him with traps and doubles. They will collapse on Williams when he gets the ball and try to keep him from getting the first step. This will leave a shooter open but they will have to rotate and move to try and disrupt a shot. If they can make someone other than Ingram and Zion beat them they will win this game.
The Blazers also will need to shoot better from all over the court and get some offensive boards if they miss.
Click to expand...
we had one of the most flukish wins ever, so terry gets to take another day off? noted
 
illmatic99 said:
we had one of the most flukish wins ever, so terry gets to take another day off? noted
Click to expand...
The win was a Fluke yes but it was also earned.
The Blazers did indeed do things that not only changed the momentum but ultimately the outcome of that game.
Sometimes you Make your Breaks.
 
BonesJones said:
You dont think CJ is a top 20 guard? What 20 do you have ahead of him?
Click to expand...

I'll take a stab at guards I think are better than CJ. Positions according to basketball reference.

LBJ
Curry
Dame
Doncic
Harden
LaVine
Beal
Young
Kyrie
CP3
Simmons
Jaylen Brown
Mitchell

Ball?
Murray?
Gilgeous Alexander?
Holiday?

Does the 14-18 range seem reasonable?
 
kjironman1 said:
The win was a Fluke yes but it was also earned.
The Blazers did indeed do things that not only changed the momentum but ultimately the outcome of that game.
Sometimes you Make your Breaks.
Click to expand...
Right like an 88% ft shooter missing 2. Or them forgetting how to catch the ball, or us going 31-31 from the line. Those things?
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
This guy would disagree with you about Kobe:
"Kobe Bryant has not made a single clutch shot in the final five seconds of a game in almost three years. Thirteen straight misses, which if you like sound effects goes something like BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG, BONG. BONG.

If you expand the definition of clutch to include the last five minutes of a game with the margin at five points or less, it does not help. This is generally referred to as "crunch time." Some announcers have been known to call it "Kobe Time." In "Kobe Time," our protagonist is shooting 35 percent this season. That is the fifth lowest figure among 22 high-frequency crunch-time shooters. For comparison's sake, Monta Ellis is at 56 percent on such shots this season."
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/1/3/7485611/kobe-bryant-clutch-lakers-data

Also: "In the final 24 seconds of the game, in shots to take the lead, Kobe is a career 36/115 FG (31.3%). This seems to prove the fact that Kobe is indeed not clutch.Jun 20, 2017"
Click to expand...
Yeah, in the playoffs where it mattered Kobe made some of the biggest shots/plays ever, during the Shaq days. That's when I'm counting it from but without Shaq drawing so much attention in the middle and Kobe having to carry all of the weight himself like Dame and MJ have had to do... Kobe wasn't able to deliver.
 
kjironman1 said:
The win was a Fluke yes but it was also earned.
The Blazers did indeed do things that not only changed the momentum but ultimately the outcome of that game.
Sometimes you Make your Breaks.
Click to expand...

Did they fuck up the inbounds?

Did they make Ingram miss two free throws?

Stotts needs to make adjustments. He won't, because he's an awful coach that relies on Dame to bail him out, but he needs to.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Darkwebs
  • Poll Poll
Game Thread GAME# 4: PELICANS @ BLAZERS - OCTOBER 24, 2017 - TUESDAY, 7:00 (PDT), NBATV & NBCSNW
22 23 24
Replies
719
Views
52K
Trackjack
Trackjack
Darkwebs
  • Poll Poll
Game Thread GAME# 1: PELICANS @ BLAZERS - OCTOBER 28, 2015 - WEDNESDAY, 7:00 PM (PST), KGW
21 22 23
Replies
689
Views
39K
SlyPokerDog
SlyPokerDog
Darkwebs
  • Poll Poll
Game Thread GAME# 26: PELICANS @ BLAZERS - DECEMBER 14, 2015 - MONDAY, 7:00 PM (PST), CSNNW
3 4 5
Replies
133
Views
7K
BlayZa
BlayZa
Darkwebs
  • Poll Poll
Game Thread GAME# 70: BLAZERS @ PELICANS - MARCH 18, 2016 - FRIDAY, 5:00 PM (PST), CSNNW
11 12 13
Replies
369
Views
16K
Strenuus
Strenuus
Darkwebs
  • Poll Poll
Game Thread GAME# 39: PELICANS @ BLAZERS - MARCH 16, 2021 - TUESDAY, 7:00, TNT & NBCSNW
23 24 25
Replies
734
Views
31K
kjironman1
kjironman1

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top