Rumor What's going on in Portland?

okay so that's all ive been saying you've been arguing against.
Put them in rehab programs. When they are better then help them with a home and employment.
If they break the law to support thier habits they go to jail.

pretty much what i said already that you deemed unconstitutional.

 

Im not sure how putting someone who denys help and continues to vandalize and commit crimes to support thier habit, in jail is unconstitutional. Can you please explain?

 

It's obviously not unconstitutional to put criminals in jail. As I've stated before, so I'm not sure why you're going there again. I support putting violent criminals in jail. It's insane that we're not doing that now, again as we've discussed before.

It is unconstitutional to put people anywhere against their will for simply being homeless or "denying help".

 

You can't force them anywhere just because they are homeless. If you want to get them into rehab you have to give them that choice.

If they are breaking laws, absolutely. There is nothing preventing that now. If our police and judicial system are failing to do that, or not doing it successfully, it supports my argument that our police and judicial system are ineffective needs radical change.

I would look to Germany for a good example on that front.

 

That's just too obscure. I don't think in obscure ways.

 

I didn't say that at all. I said you can't show it all in one tidy chart the way you've asked. There is too much data that isn't made public.

All we can do since the granular data isn't made public is assume the cities aren't lying to us when they tell us what the homeless cost them. But many cities and states give very similar numbers. And HUD supports those numbers. http://usich.gov/population/chronic

Are you suggesting they are lying?

We can compare that to the actual costs once they are housed and trackable which have been shown in the links I've provided. Which homing them makes possible.

Is your argument that cities are lying and each homeless does not actually costs us $30k-$50k per year? I've never seen anybody dispute the validity of those claims.

We do know from the studies that the damage in cities stopped (see Salt Lake City). Reporters couldn't even find homeless people anywhere in the city. Are you disputing that? If you're not disputing that, then you can obviously see that maintenance and repair costs, as well as emergency services, went down for the city...

 

No, I didn't say that at all. If they are receiving "in house" treatment 24hrs per day then they are homed. Obviously. But there is a long wait list, as has already been discussed.

Getting them in homes can be done immediately.

Once they are out of treatment they should move directly into a home with their own private and secure space.

 

No. Again with you putting words into my mouth. I have repeatedly said that violent people and theives should be prosecuted. This is not the same as being homeless.

The homeless are protected by the constitution. Violent people and theives are not.

You can't just scoop up homeless people and put them in rehab or jail. If they commit a crime you can punish them for that crime, and I fully support that. As I have said to you probably a dozen times, and you keep circling back to the same BS.

Do we really need to go there again?

Sleeping on the street is not a crime. You can't punish people for doing that. By constitutional law you have to provide housing or leave them alone.

 

i think the main disconnect we have is that i believe, and stats have shown, that half the homeless are drug addicts in this city, different than most others. So most other cities plans Re apples to oranges.

Using the term homeless to me is too broad a term.
We arent going in circles. You are painting a broad brush when i have stated several times it isn't an all or nothing answer and the details need to be dissected individually. You also seem to keep dismissing this and claim im just saying toss the homeless in jail, which is NOT what i said.

i never said toss them in jail just because they are homeless, so you keep doing the same thing you accuse me of...
In this we are absolutely going in circles.

Look. Lets put this off until tomorrow shall we? Out of respect to the anniversary of George Floyds death?

we can pick up arguing the semantics and broad brush stroking tomorrow, okay?

 

Homelessness is the problem I'm addressing here. The "homeless" cost $30k-$50k per year per person. The "Homeless" are causing the messes in our cities. According to the courts, the constitution protects the rights of people to "rest" in our public spaces. Hence, the "homeless" problem is the exact problem we need to address.

No. I'm not painting with a broad brush. I've said you home everybody you can and make decisions with the others during the homing process. This is in fact, what Housing First does, as described in all of the links i've sent you. I've said many times the homing process is the first step. Hence the name "Housing First".

I don't see George Floyd's death as an excuse to ignore the failures of our social systems (which includes the police and judicial systems which CAUSED George Floyd's death). Quite the opposite, actually.

There is no reason for you to keep saying anything about jail or treatment. We agree in those respects, many of them need treatment. Imagine how much more treatment we could afford if cities were saving 50-75% on the homeless... There is literally no reason to keep circling back to that. Every homeless population has similar ratios of drug addicts and criminals as Portland. I've seen no evidence to suggest Portland's homeless demographic is unique in this respect when compared to other cities. You seem to be suggesting that is the case. If you have evidence to support that theory please provide it.

Housing everybody first
- Allows you to better focus on the drug addicts and criminals (this is common sense).
- Cleans up the cities (proven fact).
- Shows significant cost savings (according to all available evidence)

 

This is outside of Portland and it's sort of different since it involves people out of their homes because of the wildfires, but at least it's something. Anyone that has gotten off I-5 at the market street exit knows, tent fucking city.

https://www.koin.com/news/special-r...come-shelter-for-wildfire-survivors-homeless/

 

ill address this weekend with a detailed response.
Thanks.

 

The FAMS and I enjoyed a very good meal outside enjoying the weather.

 

...fuck Antifa!

 

how did you eat comfortably knowing at least 25% of those people were undercover antifa getting ready to burn it down ?

 

I made my daughter walk the perimeter to make sure it was secure. But at least the cars on fire kept our food warm.

 

LOL
That's a good way of showing how ridiculous some of the posts are about supposedly Portland and some parts of Portland are.