Politics Afghanistan Withdrawal

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by UncleCliffy'sDaddy, Aug 19, 2021.

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  1. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    There's nothing good about the female abuse in these places...I don't agree with their laws or religion on any level but we're dealing with a medieval country...change has to come from within..cultural revolution..we're not going to be that example for them ever..what is next...we go to war with every African and middle eastern country that has a paternal unforgiving religious government? Is China on that list and North Korea and Russia? Sanctions are what we have to use...that is more effective than ground troops and bombs...we just had an invasion on our own Capitol Hill govt....this is a job for the United Nations peace keeping forces and the League of Arab Nations to address...it's not even in our neck of the woods. We can support a world coalition against abuses of human rights but we don't get to park in foreign countries for 20 years that don't want us
     
    riverman, Aug 19, 2021
    #21
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  2. Road Ratt

    Road Ratt King of my own little world

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    Yes, understandable. For me, when it comes to the U.S., invaded and invited are usually interchangeable.
     
    Road Ratt, Aug 19, 2021
    #22
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  3. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig (Blazersland) I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Hindsight is 20/20. It would have been better to keep troops there until all other US citizens and afghans who wanted out, knowing the US was leaving, could do so safely.

    The US spent decades training afghan forces to withstand and fight back against the Taliban to keep their country from falling into the groups hands. The afghan military flopped and ran as soon as they heard the Taliban were coming. How many more decades should the US have spent there training a military that proved so uncapable after decades of training already?

    It's not our country. We lost so many lives their for nothing. The US should have withdrawn after we took out Bin Laden.

    How many more presidents should this have been passed on to? How many more American lives should this unwinnable war take?
     
    Chris Craig, Aug 19, 2021
    #23
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  4. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    The biggest mistake we made in Afghanistan and Iraq is we gave them democracy.

    You can't give democracy, actually we should have told them no you can't be one.

    They needed to demand it, fight for it, value it.

    Especially in Afghanistan, a representative government didn't mean anything to them.

    Easy come, easy go, and they just let it go.
     
    SlyPokerDog, Aug 19, 2021
    #24
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  5. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    But isn't f'ing weird that one of the first nation-building things we did in Iraq and Afghanistan is give them universal health care?
     
    SlyPokerDog, Aug 19, 2021
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  6. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    It's exactly what Bin Laden wanted. He couldn't have asked for a better outcome than we've given him.
     
    Phatguysrule, Aug 20, 2021
    #26
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  7. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    You can't just train military. You have to fund schools and make sure they are safe. You have to be the good guy for a whole generation of children and teach them to love democracy and freedom of choice.

    If we weren't going to do that we should have never gone in. We should have never gone in with troops anyway, but if you're going to you have to have a long term plan.

    We didn't. We were just evil mercenaries, in it for the money.
     
    Phatguysrule, Aug 20, 2021
    #27
  8. Voodoo

    Voodoo An American hero

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    Someone really should have informed Dubya of the two classic blunders back in ‘01.
     
    Voodoo, Aug 20, 2021
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  9. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    Afghanistan had democracy in the 70s. But it never really extended past urban areas.
     
    crandc, Aug 20, 2021
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  10. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    No reason whatsoever they couldnt have gone about it differently, as you say so they could get out. Why would we take our troops from the Bagram airbase before American citizens and Afga refugees could leave? That alone sent a meaasge to the Taliban that we were hi tailing it out of there quickly. This seem a lot like the Bay of Pigs screw up to me. What a mess.
     
    Hoopguru, Aug 20, 2021
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  11. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    agree 100% and we should not be supplying Pakistan money and military aid because they support the Taliban. Fuck em
     
    Hoopguru, Aug 20, 2021
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  12. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    There has been more analysis of what went wrong in Afghanistan the past four days than previous 20 years. Unfortunately the experts cited are the ones who got the US into this mess, not the opponents who were right all along.
     
    crandc, Aug 20, 2021
    #32
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  13. Road Ratt

    Road Ratt King of my own little world

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    Spencer Ackerman on How the U.S. War on Terror Fueled and Excused Right-Wing Extremism at Home.

     
    Road Ratt, Aug 20, 2021
    #33
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  14. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    Actually the tribal warlords in the mountains have never had democracy...that was only for the ruling class in Kabul at the time..they've been blood fueding for all eternity in that rock pile
     
    riverman, Aug 20, 2021
    #34
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  15. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    EL PRESIDENTE, Aug 20, 2021
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  16. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    The US is good at destabilizing democracy for their own ends--Afghanistan, Iran. Then those nations that they threw into chaos for short-term gain, haunt America (and the world and, most distressingly, their own people) for the long term.
     
    Minstrel, Aug 20, 2021
    #36
  17. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig (Blazersland) I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Not just there. All across Eruope, Asia, South America etc. We go in with coups and take out dictators or leaders who are not willing to be bought. We install puppet regimes or paper democracies with the promise of building infrastructure. We put these countries in our debt and then take their resources for our own. Or in the case of Iraq we just say they have WMDs and go in and take out the leader and take their oil.
     
    Chris Craig, Aug 20, 2021
    #37
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  18. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    The Taliban knew we were leaving because we (Trump) made an agreement with them that we would. The only surprise to the Taliban was probably that we were taking so long.

    As for Bagram, it's something like 35 miles from Kabul. Not that useful for evacuations because it would be harder for the evacuees to reach - apparently they can walk to the Kabul airport. It would be useful if we wanted to bomb the Taliban, but we don't at this point.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Aug 20, 2021
    #38
  19. Chris Craig

    Chris Craig (Blazersland) I'm Your Huckleberry Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Yeah, Trump let 5,000 of their top leaders out of prison and signed an agreement with the taliban (probably telling them they can have Afghanistan just leave us alone) and they have been building their ranks and getting ready for what they knew was coming.
     
    Chris Craig, Aug 20, 2021
    #39
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  20. ABM

    ABM Happily Married In Music City, USA!

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    US evacuation efforts have been paused for now.
     
    ABM, Aug 20, 2021
    #40
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