What are the odds Ant or a couple lottery picks turn into a top 75 player in the NBA who decides to ride out 2 contracts before deciding to stay in Portland in his prime? I'm assuming those odds are less than keeping a top 75 player in his prime who is already in Portland.
Jody is likely to see in a year or two so Ant would be free to have a real roster put around him. Love the top 75 player. Less than thrilled about the results during that time here. So him riding out his contracts has meant what from a contending status? That doesn't make me a Dame hater and no, it's not all his fault. It just is what has happened.
I have no problem at all in sticking with Dame, in fact I hope that’s the plan. A rebuild comes with no more guarantee of success than a reboot around Dame. That said, whatever the choice is, it has to be done with an objective in mind. Keeping Dame, but failing to put enough talent around him to have a chance to compete does a disservice to Dame, his teammates and the fans. If moves can’t be found that really move the meter towards that objective, it would be irresponsible not to get the best value for Dame while helping him win a title elsewhere. Cronin seems like a smart guy. I think he can figure it out.
You certainly are not a Dame hater, I agree with that. However, the logic of saying you don't love the results of a top 75 player, so switching him out for a player who has had a great month and lottery picks (unlikely to be top 75 players) seems like a low probability strategy to turn them into contenders. Of the players on the all-nba Top 75 list, I was unable to find one who was surrounded by less talent in their prime than Dame. This is the drum I've been banging over and over for years. We're not one small step away, we've been a big and moderate addition away.
There you go again. Attributing or suggesting something to me that I never came close to saying. Search as long as you want and you won't find where I've said anything like that. What is with the distortion as of late? Not interesting enough to you to just reply to the actual post, but instead have to make stuff up? Been way too much of this as of late. As for 'riding out his contract', that was obviously (see the quote) responding to someone else who made that statement. Come on, be better than that.
I agree with this. No player on this roster is untouchable, including Dame. If we get calls for Luka, Morant, Giannis, etc. you take it and make the trade today. I highly doubt those trade calls are coming though.
I was referring to the team results, not him as an individual. And who knows if Ant turns them into a contender. But that hasn't happened so far, so not sure what the contrast is. Also, you would be trying (again) to get to contender status with the assets Dame would bring along with Ant's contract of perhaps around $20M vs Dame's $42.5M next year. That is Ant + assets + a $22M player. Again, it's not a pro trade Dame thing. But the reality of the results and the financial situation/cap management can not be dismissed.
I still think between the GM and Billups we can piece together a contending team around Dame. Lets see how things go after the season and during off-season. If Joe doesnt do anything before the deadline I look at that as he's only going to be an interim gm till the hire another in off-season.
funny part is this is exactly what you hope for as one star reaches his peak you add another one to the roster, that’s exactly how you avoid being Sacremento/Detroit. We are extremely lucky to be having this type of dilemma
How exactly would it be a chump move to send Lillard to a team that regularly gets out of the first round, and is competing for a championship and is a bigger market than Portland? Let’s face it, Lillard has a much better chance of winning a championship on such a team, and more people would get to watch him.
I agree that Ant's next contract will be of a lower dollar amount than Dame, but his production is likely to be less as well. Ant is 2 contracts away from having the experience and body to be an elite all-NBA players. This means, not only would he need to improve that much, but he would have to resign sign with us twice, and in that case, his 2nd contract is likely to be in the same cap % as Dame's. So we'd be taking on all that risk, to hopefully end up in the same position. If Ant is highly likely to be as good as Dame, you keep both of them and figure it out from there. Starting with two all-time Top 75 players is a much better position of strength than one.
I hope you're right about Cronin but I honestly don't see why Cronin couldn't get two big time players to go with Dame. I've put these trades out there a bit too much but trading RoCo to the Bulls for our pick back to us and DJJ going to the Sixers along with CJ and as many future draft assets as it takes to get Simmons seems like a very easy trade to make since it has been widely reported that Morey offered Simmons for CJ, three future firsts and future swaps. You would have to think with DJJ added and that reportedly being Morey's offer that Cronin could bring that number of draft assets down considerably but shouldn't die on that hill because overpaying for last years runner up DPOY and an all nba guy with the talent and skills of Simmons shouldn't be a problem. We don't have to win that deal, we just have to set our team up to win. I also think that the Celtics are very unhappy with the performance they're getting out of their team and think they are ready to shake things up. I don't think Brad Stevens could turn down Ant, Norm and Larry for Jaylen Brown and whatever player(s) Stevens wanted to throw in to make roster numbers work. I do think having Simmons would mean trading Nurk but I would think that could be done too for a better fitting big like Christian Wood. I know those are a lot of moves and I know that makes people think that they are unlikely but why would they be when each one of them individually is pretty much a move the other teams' front offices would view as a must have. A core starting next season of Dame, Nas, Brown, Simmons and Wood is an instant contender, probably even a title favorite. We just have to hope that Cronin is willing to be ambitious, that he isn't attached to the players currently around Dame and that he doesn't care about overpaying if it means putting this team in a position to win titles. Winning individual exchanges with other teams in terms of personnel and draft capital means nothing if it doesn't translate into playoff/finals wins, just like losing moves when trading with other GMs can be a good thing if it equals winning a championship.
Is Dame still playing at a top 75 level? And if he is, how much longer will he be playing at that level?
Yeah, I don't think that trading Dame to a good place is a "chump move" but it better be a trade that we couldn't afford to turn down as well as a trade that puts Dame in a good spot. That means we would have to get all nba talent back for Dame because Dame is an all nba talent and that getting that talent back for Dame wouldn't strip the team we're sending Dame to of the ability to win big. I think that's a harder ask than getting big value in a deal that includes Ant.
I bet Dame has more games at a top 75 level left in him than Ant will have in his entire career (and I don't hate Ant at all). I'm not a doctor, but if Dame can come back healthy, he probably has a couple years at all-nba level left him in. What do you think?
I agree that Ant's next contract will be of lower value than Dame, but his production is likely to be less as well. Ant is 2 contracts away from having the experience and body to be an elite all-NBA players. This means, not only would he need to improve that much, but he would have to resign sign with us twice, and in that case, his 2nd contract is likely to be in the same cap % as Dame's. So we'd be taking on all that risk, to hopefully end up in the same position. If Ant is highly likely to be as good as Dame, you keep both of them and figure it out from there. Starting with two all-time Top 75 players is a much better position of strength than one.
I agree, however you have to ask what would have a better chance at a championship in the long run, Dame and some rejects (per the usual) or Ant and whatever awesome package we could get for Dame?
I reject the idea that just because Olshey decided Dame and some rejects was the only path, that it is the only path. I think it would be MUCH easier to find a GM who would try to add non-rejects next to Dame as it would be to fine another Top 75 player after getting rid of Dame. If we could find a GM who is like the 33% of people here, then we should be able to get as much or more value for Ant because he could be as good, will make less money, etc. If Ant can net us a legit perennial all-star I'd do that deal 7 days a week. As we know all too well, it only takes one smart GM to isolate the stupid GM. If Ant can't even get us an all-star, that shows you the league doesn't think his potential is nearly as high as the people wearing the red/black glasses.
