Do Dame and Ant make a good backcourt?

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Rastapopoulos

Rastapopoulos

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I think the answer is: they're a suboptimal combination.

Without Dame, we have a scrappy young team that it designed for the kind of basketball Chauncey preaches:

PG: Simons
SG: Hart
SF: Nas
PF: Winslow
C: Nurk

Everybody is just the right size for their position, and all but Ant are plus defenders.

But with Dame, everybody except Nurk is forced over a slot:
PG: Dame
SG: Simons
SF: Hart
PF: Nas/Winslow
C: Nurk

And suddenly we're back to the CJ years of having a backcourt where both guards are lackluster defensively and the SG is undersized.

Now, when we were briefly clicking in the run-up to the All-Star break, I daydreamed about swapping Dame for a (healthy) Ben Simmons. Then our lineup would be:
PG: Simons
SG: Hart
F: Nas/Winslow
F: Simmons
C: Nurk

That lineup is built to run. It's elite defensively, size at every position. Add Jeremy Sochan to that and I could be really excited.

So, long story short: if we're keeping Dame (as it looks like we are), we really should think about what we can get for Ant. If I was Ant's agent, I would be whispering about greener pastures elsewhere. Perhaps suggesting that Chauncey might even want to start Hart at SG.

Now, I know that some of you think I'm a Dame-hater, but with any luck those people already have me muted and we can have a sensible conversation.
 
I think Dame, Ant and Hart make a great backcourt rotation. Mix and match as needed based upon the opposition and the situation. I’m not worried at all about the backcourt. The 3 and 4 spots are where I want to see improvements.

Edit: And screw the idea of Simmons in a Blazers uniform as far as I am concerned. That guy is a headcase.
 
We haven’t really seen how good they are or can be together. Sample size. Hart getting starter minutes off the bench (and with some small ball match-ups) looks strong. Depth and quality. But we’ll see. Add in Ingles as a secondary initiator 7th man and I’m happy with that. This team CAN come together quickly. FORWARDS.
 
So... everyone's ecstatic we trade CJ... just so we can replace him with a not-quite-as-good version? Anyone want to compare CJ and Ant offensively and defensively?
 
e_blazer said:
I think Dame, Ant and Hart make a great backcourt rotation. Mix and match as needed based upon the opposition and the situation. I’m not worried at all about the backcourt. The 3 and 4 spots are where I want to see improvements.
Click to expand...

Would Dame, CJ and Hart have made a "great backcourt rotation"?

I take it this means that Hart is pushed to the bench.
 
I don’t know how many people would argue that Simons is better, now. I wouldn’t … yet. For the Blazers, it was either Dame or CJ at a given time. With Simons, it can be both. Will be?
In a year, I’m picking Simons. Just IMHO not an in-depth analysis. At the beginning of next season, Dame 32, Simons 23, Hart 27.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I think the answer is: they're a suboptimal combination.

Without Dame, we have a scrappy young team that it designed for the kind of basketball Chauncey preaches:

PG: Simons
SG: Hart
SF: Nas
PF: Winslow
C: Nurk

Everybody is just the right size for their position, and all but Ant are plus defenders.

But with Dame, everybody except Nurk is forced over a slot:
PG: Dame
SG: Simons
SF: Hart
PF: Nas/Winslow
C: Nurk

And suddenly we're back to the CJ years of having a backcourt where both guards are lackluster defensively and the SG is undersized.

Now, when we were briefly clicking in the run-up to the All-Star break, I daydreamed about swapping Dame for a (healthy) Ben Simmons. Then our lineup would be:
PG: Simons
SG: Hart
F: Nas/Winslow
F: Simmons
C: Nurk

That lineup is built to run. It's elite defensively, size at every position. Add Jeremy Sochan to that and I could be really excited.

So, long story short: if we're keeping Dame (as it looks like we are), we really should think about what we can get for Ant. If I was Ant's agent, I would be whispering about greener pastures elsewhere. Perhaps suggesting that Chauncey might even want to start Hart at SG.

Now, I know that some of you think I'm a Dame-hater, but with any luck those people already have me muted and we can have a sensible conversation.
Click to expand...
Since Simons will likely never be as good as Dame (top 10 nba player), and Dame likely has at least a few "top 10 player in the league" seasons left, the answer would be to trade Simons for what we need to compete in Dame's window. If we were unable to make it work this season.

Unless of course Dame decides he wants out. Then you honor his wish, trying to send him to a good situation, with the understanding that we'll need to get back a fair return.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Since Simons will likely never be as good as Dame (top 10 nba player), and Dame likely has at least a few "top 10 player in the league" seasons left, the answer would be to trade Simons for what we need to compete in Dame's window. If we were unable to make it work this season.

Unless of course Dame decides he wants out. Then you honor his wish, trying to send him to a good situation, with the understanding that we'll need to get back a fair return.
Click to expand...

And that's the rub. We either need to go all-in on trying to win with Dame, or we need to fold and trade Lillard for the best haul possible.
 
Natebishop3 said:
And that's the rub. We either need to go all-in on trying to win with Dame, or we need to fold and trade Lillard for the best haul possible.
Click to expand...
Seems obvious to me. We're not going to trade Dame for a top 10 player, so we should keep him unless he wants to leave.

The whole world could change before the end of Dame's contract. The landscape of the NBA certainly will.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Would Dame, CJ and Hart have made a "great backcourt rotation"?

I take it this means that Hart is pushed to the bench.
Click to expand...

Yes they would have made a great backcourt rotation. Yes by replacing CJ with Ant in that scenario you will still have a great backcourt rotation.
No that does not mean Hart goes to the bench. Once Ant gets paid this summer I think he will be happy as long as he gets 30 + minutes.
And he easily will since Hart can get minutes at SF even if he starts at SG.
Bringing CJ off the bench might have been tougher to do than Ant.
 
IF this ownership were prepping for a sale and had concerns over Dame’s super max and age the player who would look great next to Ant is Tyler Herro - the runaway winner for 6th Man of the Year.

Jody appears to not care about tradition or loyalty, but this move would be a great step towards a full rebuild. Dame would get to play in Miami - it’s not like we’re dumping him in Tumble Weed, Oklahoma.
 
Was going to post this same thing in the "Long Game" thread as no one seems to be talking about this. This backcourt is just Dame/CJ 2.0, so I'm not sure how any one thinks it's going to yield drastically different results. At least now we only have two 6'3" guards that are iffy on defense instead of 3 or 4 like we did last season and to start this one.

IMO the only way this works is if Ant comes off the bench and Hart gets the starts. We need to really limit the time that Dame/Ant spend on the court together to short spurts when offense is badly needed.
 
Last edited:
Natebishop3 said:
Dame and CJ... I mean Ant... will make an amazing backcourt!
Click to expand...
maxresdefault.jpg
 
julius said:
I guess I missed the part where Simons is exactly the same as CJ, and that at 22 he's already done improving his game.
Click to expand...

Dame 6'2 / CJ 6'3
Dame 6'2 / Ant 6'3

Dame / CJ - score first guards who can't play much defense.
Dame / Ant - score first guards who can't play much defense.

I don't think anyone is saying that Simons is EXACTLY like CJ, but the high level comparisons between the two duos are pretty darn similar. Undersized backcourts that aren't very good on defense, and need the ball in their hands to truly be effective.
 
julius said:
I guess I missed the part where Simons is exactly the same as CJ, and that at 22 he's already done improving his game.
Click to expand...

I don't think they are exactly the same but they are way closer than most of the Simons fans in here want to admit. Unless Ant is going to magically become a great defensive player, than I don't see how Dame/Ant is drastically different from Dame/CJ and we've already spent the better part of a decade seeing how that pairing worked out. Just seems more of the same, putting the majority of our resources into undersized guards that can score but not defend.
 
bigbailes said:
I don't think they are exactly the same but they are way closer than most of the Simons fans in here want to admit. Unless Ant is going to magically become a great defensive player, than I don't see how Dame/Ant is drastically different from Dame/CJ and we've already spent the better part of a decade seeing how that pairing worked out. Just seems more of the same, putting the majority of our resources into undersized guards that can score but not defend.
Click to expand...

that could be but none of us know at this point. All guesswork

Simons is not CJ. Dame and CJ NEVER had a guard in the rotation like Hart; and Dame and CJ were never coached by Billups. My suggestion is to let them have at least a full season next year to see if the pairing will fail in the same ways. the previous one did. If it does then the Blazers need to consider that trading Simons might yield better results than trading Dame
 
bigbailes said:
I don't think they are exactly the same but they are way closer than most of the Simons fans in here want to admit. Unless Ant is going to magically become a great defensive player, than I don't see how Dame/Ant is drastically different from Dame/CJ and we've already spent the better part of a decade seeing how that pairing worked out. Just seems more of the same, putting the majority of our resources into undersized guards that can score but not defend.
Click to expand...

Simons is far more athletic than CJ is, and far less me centric.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
IF this ownership were prepping for a sale and had concerns over Dame’s super max and age the player who would look great next to Ant is Tyler Herro - the runaway winner for 6th Man of the Year.
Click to expand...
Wow - talk about the worse defensive backcourt in the league...
 
Also: remember what the Blazers played like WITH Dame at the beginning of the season? I (and a lot of others) thought that Chauncey was a complete washout as a coach. But as soon as Dame sits (and we trade CJ) suddenly we're playing the way Chauncey wants and all is good (until everyone is sat for tanking purposes). Can Dame even play the Chauncey way? I don't think I've ever seen him whip the ball around or look ahead on a fast break.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Also: remember what the Blazers played like WITH Dame at the beginning of the season? I (and a lot of others) thought that Chauncey was a complete washout as a coach. But as soon as Dame sits (and we trade CJ) suddenly we're playing the way Chauncey wants and all is good (until everyone is sat for tanking purposes). Can Dame even play the Chauncey way? I don't think I've ever seen him whip the ball around or look ahead on a fast break.
Click to expand...

Dame loved Terry because Terry let him do whatever the hell he wanted.
 
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