Remington just lost a lawsuit like this. And I agree with it. If gun manufacturers are pushing irresponsible marketing like shooting people etc, then they should be held accountable. And they can be.
Bottom line a fuckload of armed men did shit to help anything at a school shooting while a mom ran in alone unarmed no vest and came out with her two kids. It completely blows apart the good guy with gun argument. And before I hear “right so the cops suck and now yay we are all cops” let’s be realistic. Cops aren’t going away. We would be the most lawless, violent nation since civilization began
Nobody in this thread has suggested no law enforcement. I don't think anybody has made the "good guy with a gun" argument in here... My position has always been that we can't count on the police to help us when we need them. And they've proven that time and time again. And that limiting access to guns in any meaningful way is not going to happen any time soon. In fact, things are trending the opposite direction. And that the short term outrage against the other side when these tragedies happen isn't any more helpful than the "thoughts and prayers" people complain about. In fact, from my perspective that may be exactly what leadership on both sides count on to keep the distraction going. We need to get serious about real solutions.
Maybe not here, but it has in the past,s so I see @calvin natt s point. George Floyd on line 1 I posted a link today regarding a law that was being passed today about limiting access in NY. I think that is one that will help moving forward. Agreed.
When you say repeatedly that cops suck and we can’t rely on them, and I say “no law enforcement”, aren’t you splitting hairs? What’s the difference? I am failing to understand what is not the same. Everyone needs a gun because cops are useless and can’t be trusted to help you. We have a gazillion guns and aren’t safer. It’s a simple equation. If we could say “hey we have guns everywhere and we love them and want everyone to have one and look at how safe we are and how often we deter bad guys and shootings” then I’d be all for it. We can say none of that. It’s dumb.
Good question. I should be more clear on that. We need to reforn our police. There are good police in the world, and there are good police in this country. Many of them. But they exist in a very corrupt system with skewed incentives. That makes them less effective. We should be looking to reforn our police and judicial system to be more like they are in Germany. They are actually there to help people recover and reform, and as such have far lower rates of recidivism. The whole system is set up to help people improve. The police here, and the way their incentives align simply can't be counted on to get to you in time to help you in an assault that typically takes few minutes. And even if they do get to you in time, they aren't obligated to help you. I don't think guns will necessarily make society safer. But they are used hundreds of thousand of times per year to help individuals and families defend themselves. Guns are already here. And I think it's irresponsible to prevent law abiding citizens from keeping tools that could help them defend themselves from a more physically imposing attacker. Though I am 100% fine with preventing dangerous and law breaking people from accessing those weapons legally. So it's not that I hate all police, or want police eliminated. I want them held to a higher standard. The good police should welcome this. But guns are not a replacent for police and police are not a replacent for guns.
“The boy went home, changed clothes, got into a parent's gun safe and retrieved a 9mm handgun with two loaded magazines” Another useless gun safe. Fucking hell
You can't prevent your teenage kids from getting into your stuff. Certainly not reliably. They will look over your shoulder while you're entering the code. They will take your key while you're SLEEPING. As horrible as it is to say, if they are going to go shoot up a school they will kill you and use your fingerprint. Nobody will ALWAYS be as careful with their own kids as it would require to keep them out if they are motivated. Nobody is on guard like that with their own kids. It's not human nature. It's critical that we address our mental well being and social policies in this country.
Eh hard disagree. If I had a gun safe my kids would not be able to access it. Because I am not an idiot and all.
I have no doubt that you'd do everything in your power. That whole setup can be had for under $100. You might even have most of it in your garage. I do. The last school shooter spent $2k
He spent $2k at a gun store though. That's the difference. He didn't spend that money to break into a safe.
True. Doesn't make much difference to me. If he spent $100 to get into a safe and had a handgun with 3 or 4 magazines the outcome is the same...
We completely disagree here.. He spent 2 g's on an AR-15. He wasn't sneaky and took a handgun from his parents safe with a few rounds. The rapid fire shouldered rifle with 100's of rounds. That's the difference.
I guess this is the part I don't get. A handgun would have been just as effective. The end result would have been the same, would it not? I've seen no evidence to suggest otherwise... You pull the trigger and a pistol fires. As fast as you pull the trigger. Just like an AR.
You make sure they aren't there if you put the code in. A good enough safe will keep them out. Also, parents not being idiots will keep them out.
