Blazers trade the #7 pick for.....?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by TBpup, May 26, 2022.

?

The Blazers trade #7 for?

  1. Multiple picks - keep one, trade one for Grant

  2. Multiple picks - keep one, trade one for Collins

  3. Down to #11 and get Randle

  4. Down to #17 and get Wood

  5. Include #7 with Nurk (S&T) for Ayton

  6. OG Anunoby

  7. Plus other assets to move up

  8. Other - please specify

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  1. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    My thought was that the info is designed to let other GMs know Portland has other options and is considering other deals, so don't try to squeeze us.
     
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  2. BBert

    BBert Weasels Ripped My Flesh

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    I'd love to get their 12 for future considerations, like our Milwaukee pick.
     
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  3. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    Number of regular season games played by John Collins:

    2019-20....41 games
    2020-21....63 games
    2021-22....54 games
     
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  4. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    to be fair, in 19-20, he played 41 of 67 games that his team played and they were not invited to the bubble.

    in 20-21, he played 63 of 72.

    not great but that's prolly one of the reasons he's available.
     
  5. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Not true. The 20M only has to be guaranteed if it's being used to match salary. Same deal with us trading Bledsoe and his 3.9M/19M.
     
  6. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha, this is the conundrum I find myself in when trying to decide what I want this team to do.

    I've come to accept I'm totally ok with the team not trading Dame now, even if there is no shot to contend soon. Dame could increases his value if he comes back healthy, or the Blazers could get better ownership/management/etc to improve the decision makers.

    But what I do want to see now is not have the Blazers screw up. I don't want to see the Blazers trade away youth, picks, or upside young players for non star veterans that add a small amount of wins. That would be even worse than the Roco/Nance trades. Basically if the Blazers trade their #7 pick (directly or indirectly) for Grant/OG/Julius Randle/John Collins, etc I would say it qualifies as that. The Blazers would be further down the path of not having a real chance to contend soon, nor rebuild soon. They would actually be completing moves that reduce the chance to actually add a star that could make a long term difference. Yes that chance at #7 is small. But its much higher than a chance at contending with average veterans such as Grant/OG/etc.
     
  7. KSF-ERIC

    KSF-ERIC Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't Randle All NBA? And OG is young with still unrealized potential. Not too late in his career to become a star.
     
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  8. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    are you sure that is true? I thought he had two trade values, just like Bledsoe. 5M till his guarantee date, then full value after that deadline
     
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  9. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I was not listing those picks for a 'trade down' (which I hate) gauge, but rather for a gauge of the chances of actually drafting a player the level of, or better, than Collins
     
  10. CJ_is_Gone

    CJ_is_Gone Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say that it HAD to be guaranteed.
    I said that since Portland is over the cap, that they have to be able to RECEIVE the FULL CONTRACT AMOUNT.

    In this scenario, $18.5M Bledsoe's contract would have to be fully guaranteed to be able to receive John Collins $23.5M contract. (CBA allows for $5M delta between the two).
    Portland would then have to find a way to receive a $20M contract (that is only guaranteed for $5M). The only way to do that is to use the McCollum TPE.
     
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  11. Blazinaway

    Blazinaway Well-Known Member

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    IMO probably the closest match we could draft for a Collins like player ready to contribute right away would be Keegan Murray, but he could easily be gone before 7
     
  12. CJ_is_Gone

    CJ_is_Gone Well-Known Member

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    Yep. 100% positive.

    For outgoing players, the other team has to be able to accept the FULL contract value.
    For matching salary on incoming players, you can only use the GUARANTEED portion of the contract value. Teams can unilaterally guarantee more of the contract to be able to receive more salary coming back.

    I believe right now teams have the option to use either the '21-'22 salary OR the '22-'23 salary.
    Teams receiving Gallinari have to match his $20.5M contract (for '21-'22).
     
  13. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I see what you're saying, and I stand corrected.
     
  14. BIG Q

    BIG Q Well-Known Member

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    Not really following, so I am putting this out there for my own clarification.

    When teams make a trade, the contract does not change. Portland has an option of $18.5 mil on a Bledsoe, exercisable by June 30, 2022 that is guaranteed for $18.5 mil after June 30, 2022, that is the entirety of the contract. Portland can decline their team option and release Bledsoe prior to June 30, 2022 and pay him what his contract calls for, $4.5 mil guaranteed to go away, saving $14 mil If a team trades for Bledsoe today, they have until June 30, 2022 to exercise his contract which is to say "we want Bledsoe on our team next season and are willing to guarantee 100% of his deal." Or they can decline their team option and release Bledsoe prior to June 30, 2022 and pay him what his contract calls for, $4.5 mil guaranteed to go away, saving $14 mil. The team trading for Bledsoe must be able to absorb his $18.5 mil initially worked into the parameters of the construction of the trade. It sounds like Gallo has a similar team option deal.
     
  15. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    upload_2022-6-13_15-17-59.png

    upload_2022-6-13_15-18-51.png

    https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/03/how-non-guaranteed-salaries-will-affect-trades-in-new-cba.html

    upload_2022-6-13_15-23-55.png

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q102

    kind of seems like they can be traded for their lesser guaranteed salaries. But yeah, Portland over the cap disqualifies them from taking the lesser of Gallo's salary
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
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  16. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    All of that talks specifically about outgoing salary, for which your (and my) understanding was correct. However, the incoming salary for the receiving team is (as @CJ_is_Gone correctly stated) the full amount, guaranteed or not.

    New CBA limits value of non-guaranteed contracts as trade chips (msn.com)

    This article even specifically talks about Gallo.

     
  17. CJ_is_Gone

    CJ_is_Gone Well-Known Member

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    Not quite... There is no 'option' on the contract. Although the end result is similar - technically, an 'option' is a different vehicle.

    Bledsoe is under contract for '22-'23. He's guaranteed to make $3.9M for next season. If he's cut from the team by June 29, Bledsoe will earn $3.9M & then will be a FA to sign where he wishes. If he's still on the team on June 30, his contract will be fully guaranteed for $19.4M.


    If Portland were to trade Bledsoe, the receiving team would have to be able to accept a contract value of $18.1M (his '21-'22 salary) under the terms of the CBA. The guaranteed portion is irrelevant at this point.
    A couple of examples:
    * Team A (with sufficient cap space or large enough TPE) -> They would not have to send any matching salary back.
    * Team B (over cap, but under Tax) -> Would have to send back salary totaling between $13.1M (using '22 salary) and $24.4M (using his '23 salary). For salaries in this range, the NBA allows contracts to 'match' as long as they are within +/- $5M.

    For more specific examples:
    * Houston (as a team over the cap) -> Sending out Wood ($13.7M) can receive Bledsoe's contract in return.
    * Atlanta (as a team over the cap) -> Sending out Collin ($23.0M) can receive Bledsoe's contract in return.


    For Portland's side of the equation, we can only accept salary based on the guaranteed portion of Bledsoe's contract. Using the same two examples of Wood & Collins:
    * Houston*** -> To receive Wood's ($13.7M) contract, Portland would have to send out a minimum of $8.7M in guaranteed contracts to 'match' (being $5M less than what Portland receives). Portland could unilaterally guarantee Bledsoe's contract for the $8.7M and trade him to Houston. Houston would receive Bledsoe's $18.1M contract that is guaranteed for $8.7M. Houston would either add ~$4M to their payroll (by keeping Bledsoe) or save ~$5M by cutting him.

    * Atlanta -> To receive Collins ($23.0M) contract, Portland would have to send out a minimum of $18.0M in guaranteed contracts to 'match' (being $5M less than what Portland receives). Portland could unilaterally guarantee Bledsoe's contract for the $18.0M and trade him to Atlanta. Atlanta would save between $4M and $5M on this deal depending upon what they do with Bledsoe.


    ***The main confusion around all this is with regards to the TPE that Portland has. The TPE allows Portland to receive salary without having to send any back out. Again - using the same Wood & Collins examples:
    * Houston -> Wood's ($13.7M) contract is less than Portland's $20M TPE. Portland can receive Wood without sending any salary back out (and would have a $6.3M TPE remaining). If Portland could talk Houston into taking Bledsoe, Houston would receive Bledsoe's $18.1M contract that is guaranteed for $3.9M (since none of it was used for matching purposes). Houston would save ~$10M by cutting him (although they would save ~$14M by not taking Bledsoe back at all).

    * Atlanta -> Collins' ($23.0M) contract is more than Portland's $20M TPE. There is no way to receive him without sending $18M in guaranteed contracts as I described above.

    Hopefully that is more clear.
     
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  18. CJ_is_Gone

    CJ_is_Gone Well-Known Member

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    Yes - This is true.
    The guaranteed portion only effects the amount of what Portland can bring back in a trade.
    The other team has to be able to receive the full contract value (regardless of how much is guaranteed).
     
  19. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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  20. CJ_is_Gone

    CJ_is_Gone Well-Known Member

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    Correct... with 1 caveat.
    Atlanta could choose to guarantee Gallinari's contract for more money. They could unilaterally decide to guarantee it for any number (say $12M, which would allow them to take back a contract up to $17M in value). Gallinari would not have a say in this.
     

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