OT Why does the IRS need $80 billion? Just look at its cafeteria.

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, Aug 9, 2022.

  1. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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  2. SlyPokerCat

    SlyPokerCat cats rool dogs drool

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    They have gotten hammered for so long. It really is a miracle they have been able to do what they have.

    Glad to see them get some investment back into their agency.

    Don't cheat on your taxes. Easy as that.
     
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  3. tlongII

    tlongII Legendary Poster

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    Pay site.
     
  4. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Inside the IRS ‘Pipeline’ used to process tax returns
    Mailroom

    The Pipeline starts with a machine (“SCAMPS”) that opens and sorts tax returns that arrived by mail.

    The technology dates to the 1970s — though this particular machine was updated in the ’90s to make it Y2K-compliant. The company that once manufactured SCAMPS no longer exists; when the machine breaks down, an IRS employee fabricates replacement parts on-site. “Only one guy knows how to fix the thing,” says John Desselle, a mailroom department manager.

    The newest part of the setup is this computer — it uses Windows XP, an operating system from 2001.

    Irregular-sized letters are opened by IRS employees with the help of the “Nibbler,” a buzz-saw-like device.

    Extraction

    The next step is to sort different elements of each return (separating checks from 1040 forms, for example) and place each in separate batches.

    This is done at special half-elliptical desks — called “Tingle Tables” — designed to make the manual sorting process more efficient.

    Tingle Tables were once considered cutting-edge technology — in 1962, when an IRS employee named James Tingle built the first prototype in his backyard. This is the first of many, many times a return will be unstapled and restapled within these walls.

    Candling

    Then comes “candling.” At this stage,an employee tears open three sides of every envelope and holds it up to a special lightbox to make sure nothing was accidentally left inside. Sam Cruz, a 12-year IRS employee who works in candling, said he finds something left behind maybe two or three times for every thousand envelopes.

    Payment perfection

    If a check from a taxpayer is missing a crucial piece of information (such as a Social Security number), it can’t be deposited.

    An employee on the “payment perfection” team researches the missing information and writes the info on (or “perfects”) the check.

    Document perfection

    A separate “document perfection” team combs through every single paper return with a red pen to make sure nothing is missing from the document, such as a signature or W-2.

    Also, tax forms change slightly from year to year. If a taxpayer sends a previous year’s form, an IRS employee must renumber each line with a red pen so that the entries match the current year’s tax form. Otherwise, the computer system can’t process the return correctly, since only one year’s model of each form can be stored in the system at a time.

    Returns with any defects are “flagged” with colored paper to indicate a problem.

    Numbering

    Here, returns get stamped with a unique identifying number. Before this stage, the IRS has no way to track a specific return.

    That doesn’t mean taxpayers can now track their returns, though. “We need something like the Pizza Hut app, where people can log in and see they’re making your pizza, and now it’s in the oven, now it’s on its way,” says Ana B. Sanchez-Navarro, a tax examiner. “Yeah, we need that for tax returns.”

    Finger armor, for employees trying to avoid paper cuts.

    Data conversion

    Technology to scan text into a computer has been commercially available since the 1970s and has greatly improved in the past decade. Yet at the IRS, data from paper returns is still entered manually.

    That is, an IRS employee types in each number that the agency might be interested in.

    If the computer accepts the return, it gets saved to the master file. At this point, any refunds that are due get generated, usually within 10 days.

    But sometimes the system won’t accept the return … in which case it goes to …

    Error resolution

    Maybe the taxpayer made a math mistake. Or maybe an IRS employee typed in a 3 instead of a 4. The computer flags it, and an employee has to go in and fix the error.

    Sometimes there was no actual error at all, but the ancient IT system can’t handle all the information in a return.

    For example, maybe a taxpayer listed five dependents. Totally legal. But the IRS database, by default, does not have storage capacity for more than four. The computer reports an error, and an employee must manually add the fifth to the file.

    See that green computer interface? It dates to the disco era. The system runs on COBOL, an antiquated programming language few coders still know.

    Correspondence

    The IRS sends out letters to taxpayers letting them know about issues with their returns — math errors, missing signatures, etc.

    Taxpayers then write back (only by mail or fax, remember).

    Document retention

    Fully processed returns stick around the Austin Service Center for nine to 10 months in normal times (they’ve stayed longer during covid). Then they’re sent to Federal Records Centers to be archived for six years.
     
  5. tlongII

    tlongII Legendary Poster

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    Thanks
     
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  6. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    Going after the Middle Class:

     
  7. SlyPokerCat

    SlyPokerCat cats rool dogs drool

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    If you file correctly and have substantiation, you would have nothing to worry about.

    Trump screwed the middle class with his tax cuts for his rich friends. I hope Biden implements a tax hike for rich.
     
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  8. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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  9. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    This new press secretary seems pretty bad compared to the last one.
     
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  10. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I've not been impressed.
     
  11. SlyPokerCat

    SlyPokerCat cats rool dogs drool

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    That is a preposterous comment by her. Of course there will be audits on folks making under 400k. File your taxes right and you won't be audited. If you are, you can substantiate what you claimed and get a no change.

    But, again. This seems like GOP scare tactics. The IRS was so underfunded with hiring freezes for so long with an aging workforce, this will hopefully get then to pre-hiring freeze levels.
     
  12. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    She didn't say there would be no audits under $400k. She said no additional audits, and that audit rates would not increase for people making under $400k
     
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  13. SlyPokerCat

    SlyPokerCat cats rool dogs drool

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    That's preposterous. If they are fully funded and fully staffed again, of course there will be more audits. Someone making under 400k that is filing incorrectly, should be audited so they fix their behavior going forward.
     
  14. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Never trust a cat to do your taxes.
     
  15. SlyPokerCat

    SlyPokerCat cats rool dogs drool

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    That's one thing cats are well versed in.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I think that happens. I do not think we need more audits for those people. It should certainly not be a point of emphasis until we get all of the big ticket filings first.

    And we're a LONG way from that.

    For the sub $400k filings we just need to streamline the process so tax fraud is obvious. You'll never make money auditing people who make under $400k. Far better off making it more streamlined.
     
  17. SlyPokerCat

    SlyPokerCat cats rool dogs drool

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    There are two separate groups. One that does individuals and one that does corporations.

    Corporate audits are way different on that they take an outrageous amount of time and the adjustments are more based on feelings and grey areas.

    Individual audits are done with john doe and their preparer that tries to tell the IRS auditor how much they suck. Much easier to present specific reasonings.

    These two tax areas are VERY different. It is not reasonable to think folks can be absolute experts in both areas.

    They both need to be focused on. The amount of incorrectly filed returns from the TurboTax phenomenon is a problem.

    Also, if you only focus on auditing one type of group, thats what got the IRS in hot water before and defunded. You can never operate targeting any group.
     
  18. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    For most individuals it's insane that we even need TurboTax. Just streamline it so it's not needed. The IRS already knows hkw much most people owe. Just let them log on and confirm it on the IRS website.

    NONE of those people should need audited, unless they are running an illegal business.

    Right there, you'd almost eliminate the need for audits under $400k.

    Auditing those small amounts is just a waste of resources. As is making the tax code complicated enough that people need TurboTax.

    Just fix the problem rather than throwing more people at adding to the problem.
     
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  19. SlyPokerCat

    SlyPokerCat cats rool dogs drool

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    Folks under 400k could be there because they filed the return themselves and took every deduction they wanted to (even if they are tvs, cars, utility expenses that are all personal).

    You agree with that behavior?

    The IRS has no idea what deductions someone is entitled to and if they are claiming the right deductions. They also have no way to track cash transactions.

    Not a waste of resources for positions that bring a substantial return on investment.
     
  20. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    You wouldn't have the option of taking all of those deductions unless you appealed the IRS suggested amount.

    At that point you would have to justify the deductions with documentation. As long as the documentation is legit you get the deduction.

    No audit needed.

    Otherwise, yeah, I'm fine with that behavior. If we want to get the money that is owed to the government for taxes we need to improve the system. Not spend more mony trying to punish people for taking advantage of deductions we dangle in front of their face. That's insane.
     

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