right. Jail isn't working because there is no rehabilitation in prison. how about we work on that before tossing our hands up in the air and let criminals out to then come right back in? you yourself have said prison needs a reform. How about we do that first and see how it goes? I answered this question the very post you are responding to… Again, right in that post, i said jail isn't working we need to get them help so when they are released they are productive. Not destructive.
We are arguing the same things. Lol. Not sure how many times ive said we need to change the prison system. Provide more rehab. This is what Germany is doing. I dont understand the argument if people are reading the posts completely? Sigh… Bowing out cause its getting to be a debate simply for arguments sake, not really focusing on what is being said.
I know. But you did say we would have to let alot go. I proceeded to ask why. And then noted they often end back in, based on your link. I then said we need to reform the prison so they get help to be productive. You then proceeded to argue that while telling chris we should do what Germany does. Rehab, essentially, which is what i said as well. Lol Anyhow, movin on…
They don't arrest them to start with. They have a much lower prison population because most of our prisoners should not be in jail. They should be doing community service, paying fines, or being incentivised to attend classes.
This already happens. Alot. I know for a fact from personal direct history. When you say don't arrest them, define “them”. Because someone who commits a crime should be arrested. Period.
The only people who should really be in jail are violent criminals. Virtually everyone else should have another form of punishment/treatment.
Is breaking an entering and steeling a… safe or jewelry, for example, from an unoccupied (owner isnt home during the crime) home considered violent? If not, i 100% disagree. Many nonviolent crimes should still be addressed, at times, with a punishment that may include jail time.
Possibly. It depends on the situation. Why is that person breaking and entering to steal? Likely a drug problem. Now they've broken the law and you have the right to put them in a drug treatment program and help them. Once they get out they can do community service or pay a fine. Or, do they have a violent history? That would make them qualify as a violent criminal and may justify going to jail.
this is where we disagree slightly. I believe they can go to jail. Then they can elect to either do the hard time or enter into an INPATIENT rehab program. ( capitalizing because i was surprised recently when dealing with this very issue on a personal nature how many people don't know there is an inpatient and an outpatient program) This is similar to jail in that almost everything is regulated. No internet access. No phones, etc. you eat when and what they feed you, etc. As long as the person isn't allowed to enter back into society without doing the time or completing an in patient rehab program, I don't care what its called. Jail time, rehab locked down rehab, etc. I see no reason why we cant implement these programs within the current structure. Also these people can do community service while in a locked down treatment facility that can be jail. its a form of work release. See those folks in orange cleaning up the highway? My point being is anyone who commits a crime, whether drug enhanced or not, needs help or punishment before allowed back into society. They can choose to do the time or get rehab help and those that don't get help aNd continue to commit crimes get longer jail sentences.
We have 25% of the world's prison population and 4% of the worlds population. We have too many people in prison. It is not necessary, and is mostly used as a way to abuse the poor and minorities. Prison is the least effective, least efficient, and most expensive way to deal with this problem. Prison is part of the problem. As long as we have so many people in prison we will not be able to get them the help they need. It's too lucrative for the state to do otherwise. The only tool we have to help is to limit our prison population by limiting what people can be jailed for and how long. Then it will force municipalities to look to other means, and they'll get serious about setting up the programs. Prisons don't have proper incentive to reduce numbers. So we can't rely on them to help. The more people they have in jail, the more funding they get. In order to put everybody we currently have in prison through a program we'll have to ramp up an unbelievable amount of programs. Do you think those people will have incentive to help reduce these numbers and put themselves out of a job? No, that's not how these things work.
You seem to be completely missing the point. Remove the name prison call it a criminal rehab center if you like. Overhaul the spending of the funds given to these facilities. Whats the difference between that and a separate in patient facility? none. Other than the name jail or prison, that seems to be the hang ip on this. regarding the population of our country vs the percent in prison, you yourself answered that previously. We are a violent country right? I see no logic in that just because we have more criminals and a higher percent of people incarcerated, we should then allow some out? nah. I see no logic in that. I do see logic in changing what happens to someone once arrested though. This point seems to keep being missed by you when responding?
No, that's not the hang. The name has nothing to do with it. You need people to run whatever program it is to keep people locked up. Whoever those people are will not want to reduce the number of people in their custody, as that will then make their job irrelevant. There is no reason to run a bunch of people through these programs who do not need it. We are a violent country because we have inefficient and ineffective systems. Like the one you propose above. There is no way to get all of those people through treatment because the incentives are misaligned and we lack the people to run those programs. Unemployment is at a 50 year low, and that's not going to change for another couple of decades. We simply don't have the people to staff up that kind of program. However, if you release the people from prison, you can then reduce prison staff. That adds more people to the job market so you have a chance to fill the programs, and you'll have less of a need since you only need to run 40% of those people through the programs, as we have already agreed on above.
i never said run people through programs that are not needed. You seem to think i am saying treat all of them the same, one way or another and im not. Why cant a drug addict who burglars a neighbor for money, be arrested and given a drug rehab program while doing their time in prison? Why cant a sober tax evader not be locked up and NOT go through the same program as the drug addict? I find releasing criminals to alleviate prison staff so they can go find another job is not logical at all. Hire people to run the programs. Integrate the programs with the prisons. Retrain prison staff to handle some needs of the drug rehab program. many options other than just releasing criminals, in my opinion.
