I think your saying that if Barnes was a part of that kind of trade, the team acquiring him certainly thinks he has that All Star upside. In reality, i see a good to very good role player who may make an All Star Game. I don't see special.
No--what he's saying is that people who are in favor of trading Dame are so willing to do so that they'll convince themselves that an average player (Barnes) is actually a future all-star to justify that player being the centerpiece of a Dame trade. You and @wizenheimer are on the same side of this discussion. I'm the one being unreasonable here.
The people who vote for All-NBA teams and can't decide if being a playoff contender is a big factor on who should be on the team.
a platypus simply isn't logical..."I'm an otter!; no, I'm a beaver; or am I a nutria? wait, I might be a duck!"
I mean, all the media does is move the goalposts on everything he says and then when he doesn't say something, they say it for him.
Teams i can remember w/o doing much digging that made a quick turn-around, something most of us want to see the bazers do this summer 2020 Suns caught fire late, missed the playoffs, added CP3, contended following year 2023 Kings, 17 years irrelevant, last season they were not good, had a great deadline and summer, now 3rd in west 2019 Raptors, made a big win-now move, rewarded with a chip *with good luck 2008 lakers, sucked 3 years prior with only kobe, got gasol, won 2 chip of next 3 years
Not THAT quick. Suns - drafted Booker, Bridges, Ayton before adding Paul. Kings - drafted Fox, Murray and Halliburton who they traded for Sabonis. Raptors - drafted Siakam, Powell and DeRozan who they traded for Kawhi. These were all teams who had spent a significant amount of time building their teams before making a trade for the final piece. Our team is nowhere near ready to compete.
Yeah I’ve seen the Suns used as an example of a team that went ‘all-in!’ frequently (vs build through the draft) and the comparison doesn’t work because of the years of lottery suckery that team went through first to build its asset pool—Ayton, Book, Bridges, Cam, etc.
The Suns, Kings, and Raptors took years to build. It took a long time to get them to the point where one move pushed them over the top. And we don’t even know how good the Kings will actually be.
sorry in advance for the length of this post but it's one of the 2-3 mornings a week I allow myself high-octane coffee....so I'm whacked out on false adrenaline.... ************************************************************************ I suppose this disclaimer doesn't need to be made, but I'll do it anyway: all bets are off if Dame asks for a trade. It's pivot time for Portland and hopefully the Blazers aren't stupid enough to try and be a playoff team right away that said, there is a pretty 'loud' narrative around here that the best path, and quickest path, for Portland building a contender is by trading Dame. So how have other teams fared, especially smaller market teams after trading their franchise players? Denver/Melo: they made it to the WCF with Melo and looked close to being a contender. A year and a half later, at the trade deadline in 2011, Melo forced his way to NY. The Nuggets spent the next 2 post seasons as 1st round exits; then they were in the lottery for 5 straight years. The only asset they got from the Melo trade that is on the current Nuggets team is Jamal Murray; and he was landed with a 1st round swap of pick in 2016, more than 5 years after the Melo trade. Finally, 12 seasons after trading Melo the Nuggets are contenders, but that's only because of perhaps the most fortunate 2nd round pick in modern NBA history when the Nuggets drafted Jokic with the 41st pick in 2014 Utah/Deron Williams: Utah had a 4 year playoff run including the WCF with Williams. He forced his way out of town. The Jazz traded him to the Nets. They got a couple of decent players in Devin Harris & Derrick Favors; and rookie Enes Kanter. But they spent 5 of the next 6 seasons in the lottery, and the one time they made the playoffs, they got swept. They were in the playoffs for 6 seasons; 3 first round exits but never sniffing the WCF; and lottery bound this year. So, more than 12 years after trading Deron, the Jazz have not really approached the neighboring zip-code of contention Minny/KG: Garnett spent 12 years in Minny. He led them to the playoffs for 7 straight years and in the 8th straight year to the WCF. Two years later he was traded to the Celtics. Wolves spent 16 of the next 17 years in the lottery. Prior to last season Minny had won 1 playoff game in 17 years Indiana/PG13: Paul George led Indiana to the playoffs in 6 of 7 seasons (the one year they missed was the one he sat out with a severely broken leg) and two straight trips to the ECF. After trading George, Pacers made it to the playoffs for 3 straight years, but were swept twice and only won 3 playoff games. After that, 3 straight years in the lottery and there sure doesn't seem to be a contending Pacer team anywhere on the horizon Chicago/Butler: Chicago made it to the playoffs 5 of 6 years with Butler. After he was traded, Bulls were in the lottery 5 of 6 seasons and their one playoff appearance resulted in 1 win. Back in the lottery this season and no contention in sight Spurs/Kawhi: the last time Kawhi actually participated in the Spurs team was the 2016/17 season and the Spurs made it to the WCF. He essentially sat out the next season forcing a trade. The Spurs were then in the playoffs for two years with two 1st round exits. After that, the lottery for 4 straight years. And obviously, no end of not contending in sight, even with elite management and coaching OKC/PG13: well, 4 years ago Dame shot the shit out of the Thunder and they disintegrated. It's not really a good comparison because OKC has Westrbrook too and they have amassed a giant collection of draft picks from trading PG13, Westbrook, CP3, Steven Adams, and any other veteran with a pulse. Now, they do have a hopeful young team, but they are still in the lottery and you have to squint real hard and turn your head at an angle to see that team competing any time soon Pelicans/AD: not sure how comparative it is because the Pels only made it to the playoffs in 2 of AD's 7 seasons in New Orleans. Pels did get Ingram from the trade; and they parlayed Hart into CJ, which isn't really an upgrade, IMO. The only other assets they got from the trade was Dyson Daniels and another 1st from the Lakers nest season. They are light years away from being a contender and their wagon is hitched to the health of Zion...who they got from just being in the lottery and getting lucky/unlucky Boston/KG/Pierce: this is the example I've seen used the most in a trade-Dame argument. There are a lot of significant differences though. To start with, KG was 37 and Pierce was 36; Dame is 32. And Ainge completely suckered a stupid Russian owner and a dumb GM. It's nearly impossible to find an owner/GM combo that fucking gullible unless you have Minny on speed dial (which Ainge obviously does). And the Celtics were trading two NBA legends, not one. And of course, the Celtics got an almost perfect set of results from the trade by drafting Brown with one of the picks, and picking Fultz and suckering Philly into trading for Tatum for him. It's also worth pointing out that even though the Celtics have looked like a contender for 2 or 3 seasons, it took 9 years after the trade to play in the NBA finals. And wouldn't you just know it: looks like Brown is disgruntled and wants out *************************************************************************** now, I could easily be forgetting some other examples. And maybe I've mischaracterized the above trades or omitted important context. And again, if Dame asks out the Blazers have no choice but I just don't see much in the history of small market teams (who can't sign elite free-agents) demonstrating that flipping a franchise player results in contention. Looks like the opposite It appears that at best, there may be an exception like Boston, but the general rule is it doesn't work now I've seen 2 or 3 or 4 of the people who are strong advocates for trading Dame admit that Portland is very unlikely, for years, to be a contender after the trade. They just want a different direction. That's fine. I don't want to give up on Dame but Portland may not have a choice at this point. And I blame all that on Olshey and the ownership that enabled that idiot
Blazerd still have Dame. Blazers drafted Simons, he has some value we can use with other pieces for trades. Blazers drafted Sharpe, SG of now and the future. Blazers acquire Grant Blazers acquire Thybulle Blazers obtain draft lottery: land lottery pick, acquired another rd 1 pick and multiple 2nd rd picks . . . The thing is the things I mentioned above seem laughable until the Blazers make it. Then we'll talk about them in that sense (the stuff that was done before the big leap) we just can't see it until we make the BIG move that will allow the team to contend. No one talked about Ayton until the Suns went to WCF No one talked about Brunson until Mavs went to WCF No one talked about Adebayo until Heat went to ECF . . . The smaller moves are unnoticed until the BIG move propels the blazers to contention
