Trading for established star -- what's not being talked about

We've got a lot of threads and posts about Dame's comment about not wanting to play with more young players and having to wait for them to develop to help him make Portland a winner, the implications of that comment in relation to what we do with the third pick and the critique of the Blazer front office in making something happen.

You know what is getting no attention? Dame's role in making something happen.

Dame said in the very same quote that he knows players that want to come to Portland. OK, then Dame needs to put his money where his mouth is and get those players to force their way to Portland.

When Kawhi went to the Clippers, OKC didn't have to trade Paul George there. Paul George made it clear to the Thunder he wanted traded to LAC.

The Pelicans weren't obligated to trade Anthony Davis to the Lakers, but Davis made that happen.

These other teams are going to hold a Blazer team short on assets hostage to trade for a star unless the stars Dame say want to be in Portland turn the tables and let their teams know they want traded and they want traded to play with Dame.

That's how you gain leverage so you aren't robbing Peter to pay Paul (acquiring a player you need to win a championship by sending out a player you need to win a championship). That's how you get a Pascal Siakam or Jaylen Brown level of player without overpaying to acquire them.

At some point, if these players really want to be here, they need to let their current teams know that. It can't just be going to Dame and saying "I'd love to play on your team" and Dame going to Cronin saying "You know Joel wants to play here." It's in those players and the Blazers best interest to drive down the price.

 

I get what you're saying, but remember, the Clippers gave up massive assets in that trade. Also the Lakers gave up a ton for AD even though he wanted to go to the Lakers and only had one or two years left on his deal. Just because a Star players want's to get traded to a certain team, that doesn't mean that Team won't have to give up massive value in order to get gim.

 

Dame basically did this with Grant, and it may have contributed to Cronin not overpaying. Remember prior to the draft, there were Pistons and NBA fans saying the Blazers would give up #7 for Grant. Have to admit I was scared there might be a chance at it. In the end Cronin only gave up a protected future first.

I do think its bizarre Dame has been so public with his comments though, and that Cronin has also been so open of trading the pick for a veteran. It certainly could impact Cronin's negotiations with other teams, and even contribute to those teams hesitancy to send a star to Portland.

 

True, but with a couple of caveats.

First, if George doesn't force that trade, OKC doesn't blow up their whole team and rebuild. They remain a top contender. Second, they traded two actual players, IIRC, and one still was more a prospect than a player. Presuming Kawhi and George didn't underachieve like they have, all of the draft picks the Thunder got in the trade were likely to be between 24 and 30, which really isn't prime real estate for star players.

Essentially, that trade would have been George for SGA and probably a 2-3 players that are either filling out the bottom of your starting lineup or coming off the bench, and that's not really a gigantic price to pay for a six-time all-star.

 

This isn't a case of trying to convince a free agent to sign with Portland. It's going to be trades with other teams. I don't think that Dame needs to do a sales pitch other than to reach out and let the players know that they'll be a great fit for what Portland is building.

 

I totally disagree on OKC - I think the Clippers were desperate to add Paul George as Kawhi was demanding they acquire him before he signs. So the Thunder saw a once in a decade trade haul of 4 unprotected picks/unprotected swaps/SGA/etc for an aging injured star on a massive contract. They were not a contender, Dame just bounced them in 5 games of the first round when they were the 6th seed. They had been a contender with Durant for awhile previously - but they knew that ship had sailed.

No all of the draft picks are not likely to be in #24-30 range - infact not a single one of them have been. The Thunder received pick #18 in 2021, pick #12 in 2022, and still owe unprotected picks to the Thunder as late as 2026. The Clippers could be really freaking bad in 2026 - its way to early to say those won't be super valuable picks.

 

I'd say with Bridges/Embiid/Giannis this might be the case, they have so many years on their deals it doesn't matter much what Dame and the player want. Also 3rd teams would provide full trade value with so many years on their deal, so the Blazers have to send out full market trade value to beat those 3rd teams offers and acquire these players.

However I totally disagree with Jalen Brown and Pascal Siakam. As they are on expiring contracts they can put a ton of pressure on their teams, and to send them to a specific destination. 3rd party teams won't want to give up full value on an expiring deal if there is a flight risk. We literally saw this last summer when Grant was expiring, working out with Dame in Portland, and had a list of ONE team on his trade request to the Pistons. That is exactly the type of pressure Dame can have those players push onto their current teams.

 

I was wondering what the idea was behind the title. I've had a notion to write a similar post, but mine would have been a little different. My question had to do with Dame's comments about bringing in talent, too. My angle is how serious to take his (and a few others stars in the past) demands when they are taking up so much of the salary cap by themselves? Not saying they should play for peanuts. When you're being paid $45m+ a year in salary, plus the millions and millions from endorsements, it's hard to take those demands very seriously because the number one reason teams can't sign fa's is money.

 

OKC wasn’t a top contender so how could they remain one? Also- OKC got the best player in that trade in SGA. What a horrible trade that was for the Clippers.

 

Slypokerdog - lifetime supply of bones

 

As fans, we have a choice of what world to live in. Some say fans are not being "real" when they won't recognize the reality of this teams current make-up, and how that is not going to win a championship. I find that kind of funny. I actually see the reality of this team as franchise that has less trade options because of taxes/location/night life/television exposure....etc, etc. The Blazers greatest opportunity, albeit a small one, is to draft the unicorns. It is my belief that the team is not a trade away from a title. That road, simply weakens the future (90% chance), for a title (10% chance).

These stars are just that...stars. Portland is not a star destination. But I love my team. Right now, I am really enjoying the return to this franchise of good people. They might win another one someday, but they are already winners to me. Regardless, no amount of begging, demanding, criticizing, or any other effort by fans, will alter who we are, where we are, and our chances of a title.

Our best shot, still remains, in drafting special players.

 

lol, just another day on the Blazer board I see.

 

A 49-win team with George, Westbrook and Steven Adams that was 5 wins from being second seed? They certainly were a contender and certainly were a team capable of winning the championship or being in the mix next year if they added a piece instead of having George force a trade and blowing it up. We can parse words and pedantic all we want, it doesn't change the fact that they had a tremendous team nor does it have any impact whatsoever on the OP.

He was coming off his rookie year when he averaged 10.8 ppg. He's the best player now. He was a lottery ticket at the time of the trade.

 

Don't get stuck on a secondary sentence, please. Read the post if you like and actually understand it's not an indictment of Dame but the point that he can play a more direct role in making his vision a reality.

 

It's not what they did receive. It's what they were probably going to receive.

When you found out the Clippers had signed Kawhi and traded for Paul George, how did you think there team was going to perform over the next year? The next few years? What was the consensus of the experts?

The odds were the Clippers were going to be in the top five or six in the standings for the next few years. Both stars suddenly became injury casualties since, and that's why the draft picks they gave up were better. From OKC's standpoint, though, that was a longshot bet that worked out for them. No one could foresee that.

 

Well I agree that the 2022 pick wouldn't have expected to be in the lottery and became much more valuable at #12 that the Clippers ultimately gave up so soon. But that is not the sole draft asset - they have unprotected picks out until 2026 when Kawhi and Paul George are both closer to 40 than 30. Both have lost multiple seasons to injuries prior to being Clippers. Those picks are unprotected - I remember it as a consensus of a massive draft pick haul by the Thunder at the time of the trade. Some considered it to be the best haul of draft picks potentially ever seen in the history of NBA trades. So no - your statement that "All of the picks were expected in 24-30" is totally false.

 

when have the Blazers ever brought in allstar talent using cap-space in the cap-space era? Ever?

* they had near max space in 2009 (limited by the Darius Miles/Memphis alliance); KP tried to sign Hedo Turkoglu, he said no, so they settled on Andre Miller

* they had max space in 2012. Olshey tried to sign Roy Hibbert. Indiana matched so Potland settles on Joel Freeland and Victor Claver

* they had max space in 2015. Olshey tried to sign Greg Monroe but he chose the Bucks. The Olshey made an offer to Enes Kanter to fuck with OKC. They matched so Olshey settled on Ed Davis and Aminu

* they had max space in 2016. Olshey first tried to sign Chandler Parsons but he signed with memphis; then Olshey went after Hassan Whteside but he spurned the Blazers. Then, what Olshey did was waste cap-space on Evan Turner and Festus Ezeli while matching an idiot offer for Allen Crabbe and giving Meyers Leonard 41M.

and you're blaming Dame's salary for the problem...really? In 2016-17, Dame was making 24M. But Crabbe-Turner-Meyers-Ezeli combined for 52M. In 2018-19 when Portland made it to the WCF, Dame was making 28M; but CJ-Turner-Harkless-Leonard+dead salary (Nicholson/Varajao) combined for 70M. In 2020-21, the last time Portland made the playoffs, Dame made 31.6M. Meanwhile, CJ-RoCo-Powell-Jones-Nicholson-Varajao combined for over 65M. which salries were responsible for the bloat and squeeze, Dame's or the others?

looks to me like it was Blazer management wasting space & cap on stupid choices; and players, for whatever reasons, not wanting to live in Portland. Hard to see how that's Dame's fault but he sure seems to be the all-purpose dumping ground for poorly focused blame lately

 

'Put his money where his mouth is' sounds like a semi-indictment of Dame but that's probably not what you intended. I just think it's ludicrous to assume that anyone involved isn't doing whatever they can. At the end of the day he's not the GM and he's certainly not the other teams GM who needs to want what we can offer. There might be a star or two that wouldn't mind coming to Portland, but that's a far cry from a star putting Portland on a list of one and demanding to be traded from their current team. I'm trying to remember the last star to demand to be traded to a small market that was just in the lottery.