Dame all but demanding vet roster

I think it's a fair discussion. None of us know Ayton to get a feel for maybe he just didn't click in the Suns' scheme or their locker room.

I mentioned before that Bones made what I found to be a really good post that Ayton was an upgrade over Nurk but it wasn't significant enough of an upgrade to justify the difference in salary. I agree he seems to have more potential than he's showed in Phoenix but all we really have to go by is how he's played there. I trust our new scouts but if we made a deal for him I'd be wary at first.

The one thing I've been leaning toward more and more is I don't think the Blazers should trade the 3. Well, qualify that ... shouldn't trade the 3 unless a knock-your-socks-off trade. That's not packaging the 3 with another starter to get Siakam or Brown. That's a trade that brings us an all-star level talent and leaves us the assets to make a deal for another top-tier player. Without that, I'm using the 3 because I think the player the Blazers get there will be a solid part of the rotation sooner than later. I'm looking at trading Ant, possibly Nurk and the filler we have to upgrade another position on the roster. If Dame has an issue with that, then we have a discussion and explain to him why it was done ... we're not going to throw away a chip with this kind of value for just any player someone's willing to deal to us.

 

If anything, two contributing players in Scoot and Sharpe on rookie contracts makes it easier to swallow Dame, Ayton and Grant’s money the next couple of years.
Id love to bake that cake and see where we are at after next season.

 

Do you see a realistic scenario where we can keep the #3 even if its Scoot and make enough moves to keep Dame from asking out?

 

But that’s the problem. It doesn’t seem like there’s going to be a knock your socks off trade for 3.

I’m concerned about the actual return we could get for Simons and 3. So it feels like there’s a very good chance we go into next season with mostly the same roster. That’s going to be depressing.

 

My fear with Ayton is it's the same stuff we say about Nurk. IF this, IF that. I'm also intrigued by the IFs, but also weary after so many years of them already. I've seen people say Dame could motivate him, etc. But Dame's great friends with Nurk, and can't motivate him to go beast mode more than a handful of times a year.

 

And it actually won’t always look that high considering the new tv deal will kick in after next year….

 

Good points.

 

Nurks inconsistencies are annoying but it’s his complete inability to stay healthy that has really been a problem. If Ayton could be a player that is consistently healthy at center, it might be worth it. I’m just not sure if it’s worth that much money.

 

Compare their shooting percentages it might make you feel better about ayton

 

the new CBA has a 'smoothing' provision for those media deals, unlike the current CBA in 2016, so it won't be a 35% jump in the salary cap. Ayton's salary will still be relatively high

I've been an NBA fan for more than 50 years. I saw the golden ages of NBA big men when they dominated, and it was glorious fun to watch. I miss those times. But I realize the new reality....

...and that reality tells me that C is the least impactful position on the floor. Obviously if you have an MVP level C like Jokic and Embiid, it's a different kettle, but there are only two C's on that tier, and that tier is 2 or 3 tiers above the next tier

it's harsh and probably has some exceptions, but IMO, there are only 4 C's worth more than 20M/year: tier 1 - Jokic/Embiid & tier 3 - Adebayo/Sabonis. Other than those 4, I wouldn't want to pay any C more than 20M. They are just too injury prone and too liable to be played off the floor by small ball lineups

Ayton is way overpaid and I don't want the Blazers to be the team anchored to his contract

 

How dare you leave out Eubanks from your list.

 

Ayton missed 11 games his rookie season, then 35 games, 3, 24, and 15. He averages about 75% of a season. For an extra 15 million a season, we get what, exactly? An extra 8 -10 games maybe? And still inconsistent effort? That's a lot of $$ to spend in the hopes that he both stays healthy and "figures it out"

 

He is better than Nurk. I don't think he's worth the extra money.

His contract would really limit any roster moves going forward.

 

In a vacuum sure, but if all you're spending is negative value Nurk and change for Ayton, you take it and run. If they do that, that means 99% they keep the #3 pick and use it on a rookie contract. This makes us better and makes a lot of sense. And I'm saying that as someone who isn't necessarily the biggest fan of Ayton, but he's a clear upgrade and at 24 years old and a former #1 pick, he's got a chance to get much better with his already terrific natural skills.

 

You have piqued my interest and I looked up some other centers over the last 4 years.

Nurk
2019-2020 - 8 games
2020-2021 - 37 games
2021-2022 - 56 games
2022-2023 - 52 games

Total 46.6% of games

Embiid
2019-2020 - 51 games
2020-2021 - 51 games
2021-2022 - 68 games
2022-2023 - 66 games

Total 72%

Towns
2019-2020 - 35 games
2020-2021 - 50 games
2021-2022 - 74 games
2022-2023 - 29 games

Total 57%

Jokic
2019-2020 - 73 games
2020-2021 - 72 games
2021-2022 - 74 games
2022-2023 - 69 games

Total 87.8%

Sabonis
2019-2020 - 62 games
2020-2021 - 47 games
2021-2022 - 15 games
2022-2023 - 79 games

Total 61.8%

So what I'm taking from this is that Nurk is fucking ridiculously injury prone. Jokic is a machine. Ayton is pretty sturdy compared to some of the other premier centers in the league.

 

Regarding Ayton, I have lived in Tempe for 20+ years now. I know one of the radio talkers here and a sports tv reporter. Both have spoken privately and publicly about Ayton. The first issue is he sees himself as a star. A number one option like Embed/Jokic. He thinks the ball should be forced into him despite the fact he was surrounded by Booker, Paul, Bridges and a good shooting Cam Johnson. Second is he is addicted to video games. To the point he does not get proper rest/sleep. I am not sure if that habit has been broken, but as ridiculous as it sounds, it is/was true. Third, he and Monty Williams did not like each other for various reasons and Aytons fall back was to be a petulant child. It cost the Suns 30 point blow out losses in game six the past two playoffs. These are not my opinions, they are what have been reported here and conversations I have had with people around the Suns. Now, it seems the Suns are trying to determine if the new coach can get through to Ayton that with Booker and Durant, he is a third option. If not, they will trade him, and the return they want is very good veteran bench players. They want the depth they lost in the Durant deal. They were talking about Lillard on the local talker yesterday, but that is pie in the sky stuff centered around Ayton. Anything with Ayton is based on him accepting his role. Would he better as a veteran on a young, rebuilding team? I have no idea. Has he kicked the video habit? I have no idea. Will he continue to be a petulant child if he disagrees with the coach? Again, I have no idea.

 

That has been a troublesome issue. Hopefully he grows out of that for the good of his own career.

 

This kind of addiction and behavior is usually a symptom of something else. Like depression.

 

Also. the season Ayton miss 35 games, 30 were a suspension for violating the banned substances policy. I have never heard what the substance was. There was speculation of the usual weed, molly or steroids. The other five, he rolled his ankle right after coming off of suspension. He did miss time catching covid also. He has not had a bad, severe or chronic issue. Not Oden/Roy like.

 

I know Ayton has a daughter now so there is talk of maturing, him, not her. But I hope she is maturing too.