That’s a fact. He didn’t win shit. You entered all this stuff about why and who he played with. You have to explain why that is relevant to what I’m talking about.
Brian: Laker fans forgave Kobe for his trade demand. Me: Yeah but Kobe won championships and Dame did not. You: Dame had shit teams so that’s why he didn’t win. Im not discussing why Dame didn’t win. That has no bearing on the conversation. I’m saying that fans forgive shit if you’re a winner. You either are or you are not a winner. There is no try. And if you ARE a winner, fans tend to overlook your warts. That’s just how it is. So are you trying to say that fans SHOULD take into account the fact that Dame didn’t have help? What should or should not happen doesn’t matter. There’s what DOES and DOES NOT happen. Dame joins a long line of players that didn’t get it done in Portland. But the way in which he’s try to leave is putting a foul taste in a lot of peoples mouths and if he had won a ring, I think people would be a lot more forgiving…… but he didn’t. Tell me where I have it wrong.
sorry...not sorry...that I won't let you take the discussion in only the direction you want to go, with only the context you want entered you said Dame didn't win shit; I said Kobe didn't win shit when he didn't have all-NBA teammates. Adding context is actually allowed under the Rules of Sports Forum Discussion; section 12, paragraphs 9-17...look it up
Perhaps a minor point, but I'm going to throw this out there -- Pau Gasol never made all-NBA until he played with Kobe. He only made one all-star game before he played with Kobe.
big men take longer (so we've been told); he was 27 when he went to LA. He was a 6-time all star and a 4-time all-NBA
Seriously, this multiple back-and-forth bickering needs to stop. Not signaling anyone out in particular. Just asking those involved to stop. Make your point or counterpoint and move on.
But yet why is it a certain person is always the center of the bickering? Maybe it would be better if you start to single out people
He accumulated those honors primarily while playing with Kobe, though. The vast majority of them. Winning with Kobe directly impacted his profile in the league. I think it's fair to say he was a very good player. No disputing that. But now you're qualifying and rationalizing your earlier definition and moving goalposts doesn't make what was a pretty solid argument look a bit flawed, IMO.
how is it I'm moving goalposts? I said Kobe played with all-NBA players Shaq and Gasol. Facts. Shaq was the Alpha during the three-peat; Kobe was alpha during the later 2 championships. Shaq was all-NBA every season he played with Kobe; and he was all-NBA-defense (2nd team) all three years of the three-peat. Gasol was all-NBA 3 of the years he played with Kobe Kobe was better than Dame, no doubt. But he also had a much better supporting cast; and for his first 6 seasons including the threepeat, he was part of the supporting cast for Shaq. He became alpha dog sometime in his 7th-8th seasons and promptly drove Shaq out of town. Shaq won a championship in Miami when Kobe and the Lakers were a 1st round exit Dame played with an all-NBA player too in Aldridge. But we saw how that went and the Aldridge team broke apart after Dame's 3rd season. Since then (2015), not a single all-star unless you count Melo. The first year of the Laker three-peat was Kobe's 4th season. Dame's 4th season he had CJ and Aminu
Do you think that fans would have put up with Kobe's ego, his scandals, and his trade demands if he had not won a championship or three with the Lakers?
There is no way to know outside of the time period prior to Kobe winning a title. An answer in either direction would be equally valid and unprovable. I'm guessing you can always find people on a message board who want their best player traded, coach fired, etc.
Ok. Yes, I think there would've been fans would have put up with Kobe's ego, his scandals, and his trade demands if he had not won a championship or three with the Lakers. There, it's settled, it would've happened. Now what?
