As I'm sure you recall, many in here were opposed to giving him that 2-year, 120M+ extension last summer--some because of the impact it would have on our salary table; others because it would likely severely impact his trade value. Both arguments were pooh-poohed by those in favor of the extension given the expectation that increases in the salary cap would make the extension less onerous, and that giving the extension would demonstrate the Blazers' long-term commitment to Dame and would be necessary to ensure Dame's continued long-term commitment to the Blazers. Unfortunately, recent events have completely undercut that logic.
Also (because I was curious), I queried up the 632-post thread in which it was primarily discussed. Interesting reading for those who like to review history. http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/woj-dame-wants-the-super-max-extension.371322/ (although the best place to start is probably here, the first post from June 2022)
are you assuming Dame's trade value would be higher without that extension? Or that Goodwin would have employed a different strategy without the extension?
All speculation here, obvs, but I would contend yes to the first, no clue on the second. Primarily what my prior post was intending to point out was that the suggestion by some that the extension would prevent the inevitable trade demand turned out to be inaccurate. Or put another way, the Blazers might not have been in a better position by not granting the extension, but they clearly would not have been in any worse a position than they are presently.
Disagree. I think Dame would have even more leverage to get his way to his destination of choice if he had only 2 yrs left instead of 4. For all intents and purposes, we need to realize that the team still controls his destiny. And Joe doesn't HAVE to trade him no matter how much he wants out.
We'll agree to disagree on that. In my (admittedly idealistic) view, unless a hold-out is on the table, he doesn't really have any leverage either way. Agree completely, and I would believe that to be the case with or without the extension.
I'm going to disagree with that, at least as far as the Miami-or-bust strategy. The 'threat' of Dame sitting out is less if he's risking 216M in contract rather than 94M And, if he had a more open list of preferred destinations, teams aren't going to line-up to make big offers for him if they expect him to perform like a low-level all-star. They would make big offers only if expecting him to perform at an All-NBA level, like his last 5 healthy seasons. So, if he's traded to another team and performs to expectations, then he's going to want, and expect, a super-max extension from that team, and it would be for 3 seasons, instead of the 2 seasons his current extension is. In that regard, his extension could save his new team the head-ache of negotiating an extension. Might actually represent more value, rather than less
I guess I just don't see any team realistically thinking that Dame is going to perform at an all-NBA level for four more years, but I definitely see a few teams thinking that he could do so for the next two years, and those two years' performance being worth an all-your-chips type gamble on contention during that time period.
in other words, what we're really saying is that in terms of trade value, that extension probably doesn't have a significant impact especially not with all the extension news already this summer something else: have you guys considered what the impact on Dame's trade value would have been if Portland had denied him that extension and he'd made his trade demand last summer, after the worst season of his career, instead of this summer, after the best season of his career?
I think Portland has more leverage having locked Dame up for 4 years. I think giving him that money was the right move, because Dame had done everything right. I still think if we could have pulled off a move to bring in another All Star (or even another Grant level player) that Dame would not be requesting a trade. Regardless of fit. I think it was the right move to pay Dame every dime possible. I think Dame wanted to win here, and it was up to us (being the franchise) to try and make that happen, while still being responsible. It was worth a shot. I think we're still going to get a good return on Dame (compared to what we'd have gotten if he'd asked out because we refused to give him that extension), especially since we have him locked up for 4 years and making it far less likely that he'll sit out. Paul Allen dying resulted in Olshey keeping his job too long. Dame had the right intentions, and I believe Cronin does as well. But Olshey put Dame and Joe in a very tough situation.
No, that's really not what I'm saying at all. But that's OK--I know our opinions on this differ, and I don't think we need to debate until they align. Since you asked...if he'd made his trade demand last summer, after his worst season, and after also saying he felt as good physically as he had in 5 years, and had 3 reasonably-priced years remaining on his deal, I think his trade value would have been significantly higher than it is now. But again, all speculation.
I don't think Joe wants to trade him. Some people think that Joe was intentionally making Lillard mad enough that he would demand a trade so Lillard could be the bad guy. Some people think the only logical step for the Trail Blazers is to go young and tank for a few more seasons and Lillard wanting out is the best thing that could have happened. I don't believe either of those represent Cronin's thinking.
Not only does he not HAVE to trade him, he may not be ABLE to trade him for decent value due to his contract.
So here's the problem..... if Joe added Scoot thinking that he would be able to play WITH Dame, that brings into question his judgement as a GM. Or if he thought taking Scoot wouldn't piss off Dame, that brings into question his judgement as a GM.
I think staggering Dame and Scoot for the next two seasons would have benefited both Scoot and Dame...Dame's career would be extended if he had a young slasher to get beat up at the rim while learning. Scoot would learn about how to play against 29 other pt guards for a couple of years as well..lot of tape. 3 years from now Scoot would take the starting job and Dame would play less minutes and play off the ball more. That's how I think Joe saw this playing out but also I think Joe figured to move Ant before this could happen and Ant didn't get any love on the trade market. Now it's going to be Ant mentoring Scoot and even though a lot of fans think Scoot starts...I don't think he will start this season..Ant will.
So the guy who was the second most potent offensive weapon in the league last season only to Luka should have his minutes staggered. What's staggering is the mental gymnastics that you often do to make what our FO does make sense. The only think that made sense about drafting Scoot after drafting Shaedon was that it was time to move on from Dame. We've only put Dame, CJ, Norm and Ant to the test to see if them playing woefully out of position on defense would be a good thing. I have no clue why we would want to do the same thing to Scoot. Also I have no clue why you would want to play either Dame or Scoot less than 30 minutes per game at this point in both of their careers. Dame is too damn good to play him less minutes and Scoot needs the reps.
That might be what Joe was thinking, but Dame was being very vocal about how he felt about using the pick. I just don't see how Joe was surprised by Dame's reaction.
I’m not sure I want Scoot being mentored by Dame. VERY different styles of play. When I look at Simons I wonder how different he could be had he not learned from two slow-motion, non-defense-playing, iso-oriented guards. Both Dame and CJ are quite skilled offensively but lack in encouraging ball movement and full team involvement. I would like to see something different this year. Don’t get me wrong, I have loved some Dame-time moments but the team was often difficult to watch; boring, predictable, Dame-time almost became anytime he was in the game and everyone knew it. Dame & the ding-a-lings basketball. Not fun to watch, not winning, and if I were a free agent, not somewhere I’d want to go.
Joe added Scoot because that was the best value we could get. We don't have enough talent to turn down talent. He had to draft Scoot and figure the rest out later.
What has been striking was leading up to the draft, and then the week after, many posters were trying to parse Dame's words. Other posters were taking the literal view of what Dame had been saying. It was very messy here. Then, Dame asked out. Had the conversation. He also said he did not to want to teach another 19 year old. He wanted vet help. Why would we doubt Dame's words when he said if things did not go as he liked he would have a separate conversation, and then did? Dame means what he says is what I get out of all of this. Hence, he wants nothing to do with Scoot or the Blazers other than to torch them when he suits up against them. I think Cronin is playing the long game. Riley thinks he has all of the leverage and has most likely made shit offers. Cronin doesn't need to dignify shit offers. Just say thank-you and continue his day.
