The accords were never ratified, not the most recent ones. They only got close before talks were stalled by outside influencers.
Okay, but I don't see how Ukraine was doing anything that would violate the accords before they were invaded. Once Russia invaded Ukraine had no choice but to fight back. And of course, at that point they were going to take back ALL of their territory. Russia doesn't have enough soldiers to hold Ukraine. Not by a long shot. I understand why Russia invaded. They had no choice but to make a move unless they wanted to slowly wither away to nothing. They are getting old enough that this is the last chance they have. They are going to fail, but it was this or go quietly into the night as far as they were concerned. And the Russian people love a strong man leader.
...so you're citing an "agreement" that was never really observed or agreed to by either side?...wow, what a compelling agreement.
You're claiming that the Saudi's are as powerful as Russia?...really? The Saudi's are not even ranked in the top 20 militaries in the world. No, again, it's a "land grab". In 1954 Nikita Khrushchev gave Crimea as a "gift" to the republic of Ukraine ...Putin decided that he wanted Crimea back, and more. Wut?...Russia has been using convicts as troops for months now and 500,000 to 700,000 Russian men have fled Russia to avoid conscription. So mainstream media is lying, but your news sources/outlets are tell ing the truth?...really?...btw, what are your news sources? "The rest of the world....? Ummm, generalize much? All in all, you seem to be the one who is misinformed and in denial, "comrade".
Um, how do you NOT cite this? The fact it’s probably never been mentioned in this thread or on the fake liberal pro war establishment media you consume tells you all you need to know. It was the answer to solve this conflict and it was stopped dead in its tracks by outside actors. Now hundreds of thousands are dead and you’re parroting vague, idealistic reasons for why this could have happened while ignoring the actual facts that have been layed out for you.
The facts are that Russia invaded their neighboring country. The US has supported that country in it's time of need. Russia was in the wrong to invade regardless of what any other country was doing. They had no right to invade Ukraine. Supporting the country that is being invaded is absolutely the right move and what most Americans want.
I don't cite it because because it was never consummated and was not actually tested. And if it were, why should anyone believe anything Russia agrees to? Putin's word is shit. And "fake liberal war establishment"?...now you're just making stuff up. I'm not "parroting" anything...you assume too much...and your "facts" are subjective and quite myopic.
hundreds of thousands are dead because of Putin. Not because the US, Europe, Japan, Korea, or Canada are supporting Ukraine defending themselves. The war starts and ends with Putin. “fake liberal war establishment” sounds like some bullshit Russians are posting on Twitter and 4chan
There was never a deal on the brink of being made. Zelensky came into office ready to make a deal with russia and Putin didn't want to deal except entirely on his terms, which would basically have made Donbass a constant thorn in the side of governance in Ukraine. Can you provide a link where Johnson and Nuland blew up any kind of pending agreement?
Wait a minute, russia had troops in Ukraine, a sovereign nation? Do you realize they have always denied ever having troops in Ukraine during this time period? Why do you support liars?
Minsk accords were never the answer to anything. Ukraine signed tham basically at the point of a gun, because if they didn't, putler threatened to send the russian army all the way to Kyiv. Even then, the accords were so poorly written that they could be interpreted in many different ways. They were useless. BTW, when you say that Ukraine was bombing the Donbass for years, you are parroting a russian narrative that is not true. Why would you do that? The truth is that there was artillery shelling back and forth. Ukrainians were under orders to never initiate fire, only to respond, and they held to that.
They probably didn’t consider Crimea as a part of Ukraine after the referendum. That’s up for debate. The people there clearly voted one way (not in favor of being part of Ukraine) and NATO decided they voted wrong, apparently. Maybe being ethnically Russian, speaking Russian, historically being a part of Russia and simultaneously being bombed by Ukraine, what’s supposed to be their own country, left a bad taste in their mouth?
This is just you proclaiming things in the most binary way possible. It’s just emotional yelling, devoid of any facts.
No. You mentioned specifically "eastern Ukraine". that is not Crimea. As for the referendum in Crimea you are again exactly parroting the russian line. I think you have heard of russian Igor Girkin; he admits the Crimean parliament was forced to set up a referendum by russian soldiers. He was there.
A real leader would be figuring out a way to broker peace between Ukraine and Russia, but instead the US keeps fanning the flames, which has resulted in massive death/destruction. And they've sold this war to the public through constant propaganda, painting Russia as the evil empire and Ukraine as the good resistance. Ignoring the actual context of what lead up to this conflict, and ignoring that Russia is protection a region which wants to break away from Ukraine and has been getting shelled by Ukraine for years....
more on the phony referendum. I can't believe any American could believe it was legitimate. "The council scheduled a referendum for March 16, which offered two choices: join Russia or return to Crimea’s 1992 constitution, which gave the peninsula significant autonomy. Those who favored Crimea remaining part of Ukraine under the current constitution had no box to check. The conduct of the referendum proved chaotic and took place absent any credible international observers. Local authorities reported a turnout of 83 percent, with 96.7 percent voting to join Russia. The numbers seemed implausible, given that ethnic Ukrainians and Crimean Tatars accounted for almost 40 percent of the peninsula’s population. (Two months later, a leaked report from the Russian president’s Human Rights Council put turnout at only 30 percent, with about half of those voting to join Russia.)" https://www.brookings.edu/articles/crimea-six-years-after-illegal-annexation/
Did the Russian soldiers also force the people there to vote a certain way? Or did they do that on their own?
Anybody who wants to argue any points, go to russian sources. @Kasparov63 is a russian who is a lot more knowledgeable than me. Or look for videos translated from Prigozhin, leader of Wagner forces outbursts. He admits that there are no Nazis in Ukraine and that the invasion had nothing to do with NATO. He says it was russian elites (of which Putler is one) wanting to steal Ukrainian resources.
