Re: Is "clutch hits" a legitimate stat? When comparing Derek Lee and David Ortiz, the ole Clutch-Hits argument came up in favor of Ortiz. The other analyst said that there is no such thing as a clutch hit stat, that it's just fabrication. He said that there is no way David Ortiz can force himself to be stronger or smarter when it's a clutch situation, and if he could he'd do it all the time and thus it wouldn't be clutch.
Re: Is "clutch hits" a legitimate stat? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Apr 11 2006, 07:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>When comparing Derek Lee and David Ortiz, the ole Clutch-Hits argument came up in favor of Ortiz. The other analyst said that there is no such thing as a clutch hit stat, that it's just fabrication. He said that there is no way David Ortiz can force himself to be stronger or smarter when it's a clutch situation, and if he could he'd do it all the time and thus it wouldn't be clutch.</div>I dont think its a legit stat like Batting Average or something you can put a tangible number on it or something like that, but I do think its something that should be taking into consideration. When its the 8th or 9th inning in a close game you can count on Ortiz getting on base or hitting the clutch homerun alot more then you can on other 'star' players in this league *cough* A-Rod *cough*
Re: Is "clutch hits" a legitimate stat? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Apr 11 2006, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Apr 11 2006, 07:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>When comparing Derek Lee and David Ortiz, the ole Clutch-Hits argument came up in favor of Ortiz. The other analyst said that there is no such thing as a clutch hit stat, that it's just fabrication. He said that there is no way David Ortiz can force himself to be stronger or smarter when it's a clutch situation, and if he could he'd do it all the time and thus it wouldn't be clutch.</div>I dont think its a legit stat like Batting Average or something you can put a tangible number on it or something like that, but I do think its something that should be taking into consideration. When its the 8th or 9th inning in a close game you can count on Ortiz getting on base or hitting the clutch homerun alot more then you can on other 'star' players in this league *cough* A-Rod *cough*</div>While that somewhat may be true, IE Derek Jeter is Mr. Clutch, doesn't hitting home runs in the 2nd inning help your win just as much as hitting them in the 9th? A 3 run shot is worth 3 runs, no matter the inning it's in.Active Career leaders for most game-winning RBI's (stat taken from the side-bar on SC) are as follows:1. Derek Jeter2. Barry Bonds3. Jeff Bagwell4. Mike Piazza5. Jorge PosadaNotice that Sammy Sosa, David Ortiz, Rafael Palmeiro, Ken Griffey Jr., etc aren't in the top 5. In fact Bonds is the only real Home Run hitter to speak of on the list, even though Bagwell and Piazza have accumulated a fair number themselves.. That's just a side note, the home run thing, and not really a point I'm arguing for or against. But look at the list, it's not a collection of big bats. Posada, Bagwell, and Bonds all have sub-300 batting averages for their careers. Hell, Posada has a .269 Career BA, and even he cracks the list. But not Sosa or Ortiz and all their Home Runs. Jeter certainly doesn't get many rides on the merry go round, and he's the leader. What makes him the leader? And so quickly?I'm not really arguing one way or the other, because I'm myself not decided. It's not like basketball where hitting a 3 pointer at the buzzer is the same as hitting a 3 pointer in the middle of the 3rd quarter. It's baseball where teams take 2-2 ties into the 16th inning sometimes. Every run matters. So part of me thinks that getting RBI's in the 8th and 9th inning, with the game on the line should be a stat that matters, the other part says that if that same player did it in the 3rd inning the team still would have won, it just would have been less exciting. Isn't it entirely possible that it just takes Jeter a while to get warmed up and he's not clutch, just usually gets his hits late and not early, and therefor just gets credit for being clutch?
Re: Is "clutch hits" a legitimate stat? Jeter has always been in the right place at the right time all throughout his career. he is as "clutch" as it gets in the league. He is an above average player who comes up big when it matters. that is why he gets the big bucks. But for the sake of this question, first let us define clutch. Does clutch have to be 8th inning on? Is it not clutch if there is 2 outs in the bottom of the 1st inning? Personally I think anytime there is runners in scoring position the batter is in a clutch situation. I was voted best clutch hitter 2 times in higschool. I don't think it is a big deal. I had 7 game winning hits and 2 walkoff homeruns. But i also hit .469 as a varsity player. and had manny rbis and homeruns that weren't game winners that I thought were just as clutch. I don't think anyone hits better in the "clutch", but some people wilt in the "clutch".
Re: Is "clutch hits" a legitimate stat? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bobferg @ Apr 12 2006, 03:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jeter has always been in the right place at the right time all throughout his career. he is as "clutch" as it gets in the league. He is an above average player who comes up big when it matters. that is why he gets the big bucks. But for the sake of this question, first let us define clutch. Does clutch have to be 8th inning on? Is it not clutch if there is 2 outs in the bottom of the 1st inning? Personally I think anytime there is runners in scoring position the batter is in a clutch situation. I was voted best clutch hitter 2 times in higschool. I don't think it is a big deal. I had 7 game winning hits and 2 walkoff homeruns. But i also hit .469 as a varsity player. and had manny rbis and homeruns that weren't game winners that I thought were just as clutch. I don't think anyone hits better in the "clutch", but some people wilt in the "clutch".</div>Well look at the Yankees game yesterday. He hit the game-winning 3 run home run. But did his 3 run home run count any more to the scoreboard than Jason Giambi's 3 run home run did earlier in the game? They both added 3 runs to the tally, if I'm not mistaken.
