You've got a number of talking heads and fans saying the Blazers shouldn't expect the kind of return Gobert and Durant brought last year because it's a different market. They conveniently forget that the Blazers don't have to trade Lillard now and that the market can shift. Durant, I believe, asked for his trade months before it happened. He played on and off until he got shipped to the Suns and the Nets got a good return. The market's fluid. I don't think the Blazers should feel any pressure to get this done immediately, and I think if a team (the Heat) thinks they need him RIGHT NOW, it's all on them to find a way to get it done. If Dame wants to be petulant about it, that's fine; he can sit at home.
Durant played a lot more for Brooklyn last season than he did for Phoenix, 39 games vs 19 ( 8 regular and 11 playoffs). Durant had a Wish List. The fact that Lillard does not have a Wish List, and instead has requested a trade to a team with few assets, makes me wonder how badly he really wants to leave Portland if the destination isn't Miami.
Yeah, I'd love this trade but it will have to wait until Dec 14th since Schroder was signed as a free agent this off season. If we were going to do this though I'd want to include the Suns on this sending Schroder and Nurk to them for Ayton, I think the Suns might need to do that since they don't have one legit PG on their roster.
Scottie Barnes + filler (and Grady Dick?) for Lillard is as good as it gets. OG + (Grady Dick?) + filler for Lillard is fine by me. Toronto (reportedly) wanted Simons + 7 + at least 2 more 1st rounders for OG. Could have been 3 1sts. With OG becoming a P-opt free agent next year, and their hole at PG, the price comes down. Would that price be Lillard?
ok...I have to wonder: I'm thinking Scottie Barnes has become pretty overrated around here. He's another player who can do a lot of things except shoot with any decent efficiency. And we have seen, over and over, that is a serious limitation yes, he's young and has upside, but I'm thinking that him as the centerpiece of a Dame trade without some serious draft capital coming back is not close to the great deal some of your are claiming I'm probably underrating him but when I look at 2nd year Barnes vs 2nd year Evan Turner, I kind of think Barnes could be, at most, a rich man's Turner
If the goal is to get OG, why don’t we just get the best package possible for Dame elsewhere and offer OG a 3 yr/$130m contract next summer? The reality is, Masai has never been willing to deal in good faith. Why hope for a change of heart? Sure, if Raptors offered Barnes, Koloko, Dick, and a 1st for Dame, I’d do it. I’m skeptical.
How does Portland get the cap space to pull that off? Portland will have a salary number of ~$180m. The projected cap will be ~$142m. They would have to trade Dame, Grant & Ant for basically expiring contracts to get enough cap space to be realistic
Getting Barnes for Dame is going to take A LOT of filler and until only recently was Barnes pretty much off the table. Getting OG given his impending free agency along with that of Siakam and Trent, too? Easier to do. Even if it was Lillard = OG + Boucher (30 years old with 2 years) + T Young (35 + expiring) + OPJ (30 + expiring), that’s still a better fit for Portland with a re-signed OG at about Grant $$$ than Miami’s best offer.
Isn't a "Rich Man's Turner" Draymond Green? Plus, Barnes is 6'8". He'd be a meaninfully bigger Turner or Green. It is a worry about Barnes's shooting,. However, the one area where he improved last season was Assists. He averaged 4.8 assists to 2.0 turnovers. That's high-quality. And then there's Barnes's defense. Scottie Barnes Defense Is ELITE!
I think Dame, Ant, and Nurk will be gone. I’m not even sure what the Dame/Nurk and Ant trades would look like, so I have no idea where to start in terms of trying to illustrate how we could find the cap space. 3 yrs/$130m was also just a number I threw out there. Could he make more? Maybe I guess? Could he make less? No idea but I’m hopeful. I’m also not hung up on OG as the specific guy either. But overpaying for a good fit next to Scoot and Shae wouldn’t be a bad thing to do, especially if they come off the books before either guy hits their extension.
Fair points. How many 1sts could be had with this deal? To get, essentially, a starting frontcourt for Dame is kind of crazy to think about. I’d do this deal if it came with at least a 1st.
no...a rich man's Turner is NOT Draymond. Well below that level and no, Barnes is not "elite" at defense. If he was, he would have ranked a lot higher in Toronto's defensive rankings: defensive rating Jakob Poeltl 110 Dalano Banton 112 Thaddeus Young 112 Chris Boucher 112 Christian Koloko 113 Precious Achiuwa 113 OG Anunoby 113 Will Barton 114 Fred VanVleet 114 Khem Birch 115 Juancho Hernangómez 115 Pascal Siakam 115 Scottie Barnes 115 DBPM Thaddeus Young 1.9 Jakob Poeltl 1.5 Khem Birch 1.1 Jeff Dowtin 0.9 Christian Koloko 0.8 OG Anunoby 0.7 Dalano Banton 0.6 Fred VanVleet 0.5 Will Barton 0.5 Juancho Hernangómez 0.2 Gary Trent Jr. 0.0 Scottie Barnes -0.1 Pascal Siakam -0.1 elite defenders don't post defensive ratings 1 point worse than their team; and elite defenders don't have a worse DBPM than an average NBA player. Maybe he can eventually be a high level defender, but nothing I've seen says he's there right now, either eyeball or statistical I don't have a problem with Portland going after Barnes. I have a big problem with the idea that he would be the primary return in a trade of Dame, instead of a part of the return
DRTG stats almost always seem to heavily heavily favor PFs and Cs. Look at BBRef's list, and how far you're scrolling before wing names starting to pop up with any regularity. Looking at recent all defensive teams, just last year, Dillon Brooks' DRTG was 114. He was(basically) last on his team in defensive rating. 2ndteam all NBA ranking worst on his team?! Marcus Smart was 4th out of 5 of the starters the year he won DPOY, and just at his team's ranking. Mikal Bridges was behind every starter besides Booker when he was on All defense team, and was 1 point worse than his team's overall rating. This past year Marcus Smart was a point below his team's overall rating, meanwhile defensive juggernauts like Vucevic and Valanciunas were both about 2 points better than their team as a whole. I know awards and all nba teams aren't the end all be all of ranking guys, but if you have enough good, great and elite defensive wings that are consistently low on their team, maybe it says more about the rating than it does the player?
defensive ratings are a real poor gauge for comparing players from different teams. And yes, most defensive stats favor, or at least skew toward the big guys but comparing a player's rating to his team's rating is a valid gauge, IMO, especially for a high-minute starter like Barnes Portland had a defensive rating of 119 last year. These are the rotational players that posted marks better than the team: Jusuf Nurkić 114 Drew Eubanks 115 Gary Payton II 116 Matisse Thybulle 116 Justise Winslow 118 Josh Hart 118 so, again, yes, I see some possible skew toward the bigs, but I also see 4 wings that were able to post a better mark than their teams. And that matches well with my eyeball test. Jerami Grant was one point worse than his team. Barnes was one point worse than his team Barnes might be a little better on defense than the stats say. He might not though. And it's an extreme stretch to justify calling him an elite defender. At least not by the accepted definition of elite but that's a side issue IMO. My main contention is that if Barnes is the major asset coming back in a Dame trade Portland is selling Dame very cheaply
But I compared elite defenders to their team, and not just overall. You ignored that. So let's put Barnes on the level of Brooks and Smart as being bad ontheir team. Does your eyeball test have Eubanks as a better defender than Thybulle? If so, get your eyes checked man. DRTG has Andre Drummond looking like one of the best defenders in the league, 9 points better than his team! But eye test easily tells one he isn't a good defender.
defensively, probably although I don't recall any people saying Grant is an elite defender. but Siakam rates out a lot better than Barnes: PER: Siakam 20.3....Barnes 15.5 TS%: Siakam .565....Barnes .524 FTrate: Siakam .361....Barnes .242 RebRate: Siakam 11.9%....Barnes 10.8% AssistRate: Siakam 24.9%....Barnes 20.0% Winshares/48: Siakam .141....Barnes .090 BPM: Siakam 3.1....Barnes 0.4 that explains a lot of Siakam's value advantage over Barnes. But of course different teams will gauge value differently. Win-nowtimelines heavily favor Siakam. Potential and upside favors Barnes
