Toronto Raptors Dame trade ideas and rumors

Dame started right off the bat with Lamarcus, Matthews and Batum.
Dame hit that terrific game and series winner against Houston in his SECOND SEASON.
Does anyone want to go back in time and take that away, trade away Aldridge, Matthews and Batum and commence with tanking?
They only reason anyone would say "Yes" would be in hindsight, knowing Matthews would suffer a severe injury and Aldridge would leave.
But not knowing that, that team had potential.

 

Of course not, but you could make the argument that they may have been able to build the contender that they never could if they went that route. Also, Aldridge, Matthews and Batum were all here already and an established part of a core. We were adding a 22-year old Damian Lillard to that. Scoot is 19. We have more time with Scoot.

Where did that get Dame? He spent 11 years in Portland and never contended, mostly due to Neil Olshey's incompetence but also a lack of assets to be able to surround Dame with meaningful pieces. If you think a core of Scoot, Sharpe, OG, Grant and Ayton contends in a couple years, I get it. But to me, that feels more likely to be a team that's good enough to win a playoff series but not good enough to win it all. I'd rather take more time to make sure we build a team or have the assets that result in a contender.

 

But if you spent 2 years tanking and got the #1 pick and drafted a center like Ayton, then got the #4 pick and got a player like OG you'd think that tank plan is worked. Then in year 3 you'd probably already be at a point where you're too good to get high lotto picks.

There's also the chance that you draft busts. You could just start by having that team now.

 

You mean pay him obscene amounts of money and tell him that if he tries to artificially deprese his market value the team will have to trade him to the place that offered the most?

I think he will understand.

 

We had many opportunities to contend with Dame. Olshey just screwed it up repeatedly.

Refusing to trade CJ for PG. Refusing to get value out of Aldridge. Missing in critical drafts. Overpaying average players who over achieved rather than trading them for max value.

If we suck the next few years and OG and Ayton leave because of it, how have we helped ourselves?

That seems just as likely as drafting players as good as they are.

 

Dame's teams made the playoffs in eight of his first nine years. That established core you point to when Dame got here won 28 games the season before he arrived and was in the lottery, won 33 games in Dame's first year and then was in the conference semifinals.

Of course, Dame also had a team in the conference finals that squandered leads in what, three of the four games against a dynastic team? I get the need to revise history to suit your narrative, but your post comes off like Dame was on a perpetual loser. He was not. He was on a good team that never was able to catch up to better teams, and one could argue the Blazers squandered good resources on meh returns in a panic to fit Dame's window, which, BTW, doesn't seem to be closing as fast as people that applauded the moves to get RoCo and Nance.

One other thing about contenders. Exactly how many teams are really contenders out there every year?

In Dame's career, eight different teams have won NBA titles. Twelve different teams have played in the finals. Three of those eight winners have been LeBron teams. One of the others -- which won four times -- was Steph/Klay/Draymond/Kerr with Durant a couple of years.

One team built around one of the five best players in the history of the game. The other a dynasty built around guys that were picked seventh, 11th and 35th.

Two of those other champion teams were built around homegrown talent that was drafted 15th and 41st who are two of the five best players in the NBA.

If your standard for contention is being able to get to the finals, the Blazers are far from alone in not contending -- the number of teams that are truly contenders are minuscule. If your standard for contention is being able to win playoff series, the Blazers in Dame's career are -- they made the playoffs eight straight years before he basically missed a season with core injury surgery.

I get so tired of these double standards and disingenuous arguments to act like Dame was in such a bad situation in Portland that he might as well have been the little kid begging for the dish of gruel.

 

Dame needed Paul Allen to be healthy and engaged and bring in our version of Pete Carroll and John Schneider.

Olshey wasn't it.

 

I would look to compare Ayton's situation in Phoenix to Jermaine O'neal (JO) in Portland. JO played on a loaded vet team and couldn't get any time at all. Then Portland traded him for another win now vet and JO blew up in Indy. While Ayton plays a different position, he has been playing on a loaded Suns team putting up 18/10 as a fifth option. The kid wants a role on the team. Wants to go JO on the league. You have to admire that. Portland fans certainly admired that of JO and loved him with Indy. I have no problem with Ayton coming to Portland and wanting to be a first, second or third option. Teams should be looking to establish a low post game early so he can make a couple quick buckets, get defenders to sag onto him and open up the three point shot for others. This is really a complete no brainer for me if the team is committed to using him properly. If Portland decides to run it back as a ball dominate, walk it up, point guard dominated team, it will just be a waste.

 

You're re setting yourself up for disappointment if/when we get Ayton here.

Tigers dont change their stripes. The player Ayton has been in Phoenix is largely the same player that we'll see in Portland. Its the same player that I watched when he was in College at Arizona.

He can be a very good player.... but his mentality/aproach to the game can be infuriating.

Hes very much like a Nurk situation & caliber of player. Sometimes you love him. Sometimes its WTF? Only major difference from Nurk is the age & salary (2x)

 

... and production.

He is much more productive than Nurk.

Given Portland's supposed salary situation if Dame is traded - it is worth the risk, if it works, great, if not, the Blazers will get out of his contract before they need to commit big salary to Shae and Scoot.

 

I'm with you on this. I live in Tempe and my kids love the Suns since they were born here. I've followed. My angle is that I think Ayton needs to be "the man." Being a vet and only 5-6 years older than Scoot/Sharpe I think will in Aytons mind make him a team leader. I think his mind works from being a leader, and he had no chance to be a leader in Phoenix with Booker, CP3, Durant and the new vets they picked up. On that team he is expected to put up 18/10 and just shut up. His 18 comes from put backs and hustle. They do not really run plays for him. Yes, they did in the playoffs, but that is a different game. Portland has to spend the money. He is off the books when Sharpe's extension is due. If it doesn't work out beyond him putting up 18/10, don't re-sign him. He can still be part of the tank then.

 

The prioriry should be position of need starter or starter potential still in rookie deal plus draft capital in return for Dame so we have powder for when Sharpe and Scoot are ready. Barnes, Dick, filler, picks.

 

Toronto needs to choose between Barnes and OG, and if I am them I am keeping Barnes for multiple reasons. (injury history, salary next summer, 4 years younger) Plus his current salary helps more with matching Dame's salary. We will be disappointed if we think Barnes is coming back in return.

 

Sure, but what are we giving up? One frustrating big man and maybe some filler for a guy that could potentially figure it out. With Dame gone, it's not like we will be in financial trouble. We're still spending Paul's money.

 

Actually, I said we should trade LMA the summer of his last contract year before he left for nothing. I actually proposed among other trades, seeing if the Sixers would trade the then injured Embiid (who hadn't yet played) for Aldridge. I was largely condemned for it on BE.

 

Thank you, a grounded response!

 

Dame said he wants to play with OG. Portland should ask for Barnes. The numbers are more tricky but involving additional teams can solve that

 

Who says we were? Maybe the offers just sucked because CJ is a Mid player, and Norm and Roco were correctly valued as we can see from their performance since the trade. Rocco has had one of the steepest declines I can recall without a huge injury.

 

In his prime, KD was much better than Dame but I’d say Dame was better than KD last year.

 

Phoenix might want him