Religion Mid East Religious War

Saw a cartoon showing a road. On in side an Israeli family was holding a sign "We are not Netanyahu". On the other a Palestinian family holding a sign "We are not Hamas".

 

Maybe they should fund desalination plants and modern power plants first... Just imagine how much better they would be if instead of funneling so much money for rockets and tunnels Hamas funneled it to infrastructure projects.

Just for reference, Israel, which spends a ton of money on it's army spent 4.5% of it's budget on the "military" in 2022, Hamas spent 20%

 

Totally agree. The only caveat I would say is that treating them like equals isn't right since the power is so asymmetrical. One of them has a nuclear superpower behind them and has spent 7 millions dollars in two weeks for Youtube ads. They already have commercials made! Mistakes have been made in the past on each side for sure and both need to agree to a two state solution and rid themselves of Bibi and Hamas.

The problem I see is politicians on both sides will sell fear to their population in order to grab power. We have that in the U.S. too. Every 15 minutes we have Republicans saying we need to go to war with China, Mexico, Iran, etc.

But yes, the only chance we have at peace is to get rid of the occupation and have a two state solution with very big walls separating the two.

 

I agree that the 2 states solution is the way forward, I am not sure why you are being stuck on asymmetrical and want to punish success.

In 1948, when both the Palestinians and the Jewish people that became Israel could go for the 2 states solution - there were 1.4 million Arabs and less than 1 million Jewish people in the area that covers the 2 states. Through continued mistakes over the years, always rejecting the 2 state solution because they wanted all of it, the Palestinians were left behind. It's a fact - I don't think there is any argument that they would be in a much better place if they did not go for the all or nothing option.

Sounds to me (and correct me if I am wrong) like for some reason you blame the Israelis for working hard to make a success of their country and for some reason this means that they have to give up more. I do not think there is any point in mentioning the asymmetrical situation. It is a simple cause-effect situation.

History has shown us that when it's neighbors are willing to accept it's right to exist (Egypt, Jordan) - Israel will make concessions and will live peacefully with it's neighbors (Over 35 years with Egypt, almost 30 with Jordan). We have seen that other than the Iran sponsored terror groups in Lebanon, Israel and Lebanon can coexist even if there is no official peace treaty. Israeli planes have travel rights over Saudi air-space and vice versa, even if there is no official peace treaty. I do not know what is happening with Syria, but even tho there is no real love between these countries, there was no real conflict since 1973? It has basically been a live and live situation.

Hack, we have seen that Israel gave territory back to the Palestinian authority as a first step to a 2 states solution which was almost immediatly negated by Hamas.

So, I do not see what asymmetry about their success with their approach to life has anything to do with it. Bibi, imho, is a symptom of the continued resistance by the Palestinians to compromise and the continued terror activities even when Israel gave them authority, and logically, you can not fault Israel for working to protect itself against continuous terror. It's not the "PC" thing to say, but the Palestinians situation is to a large percent, their own doing - and until they accept it and concentrate on being happy instead of being victorious - I can not logically see how it changes. That's the cause of asymmetry in success, it has nothing to do with the way forward.

Again, there is all this claim that Israel wants to control Gaza and the west bank, other than the religious nuts (and every place has them), this seems very illogical to me. Israel was willing to give Sinai back for peace with Egypt, and Sinai has large oil deposits and had a large tourism opportunity (If anyone ever has a chance to go scuba diving in the red sea, do it, it's an amazing place). What natural resources are there for Israel to want to exploit in the west bank or Gaza? What tourism targets are there? As we have seen, Israel gave control of these territories already to the PA and had to stop the process for a 2 state solution once the Palestinians decided they do not want some, they want all.

It's time to stop this false equivalency nonsense. The only solution that will work is 2 states, initially with security measures and with time, hopefully, open borders. But it will not happen as long as only 1 side has shown willingness to work to that goal.

 

Surprisingly, if I had to choose, I would take north Dakota. I have been to South Dakota before and it sure has the more famous attractions, but if I never have to go again, I am fine with it even tho the badlands are an amazing place, second only to Joshua tree in it's alien planet vibes.

I was surprised how much I liked north Dakota last summer when we drove through it. The reason we chose to do it was because I desperately wanted to avoid south Dakota telling my better half that it will likely suck, but at least it will be a new place we have never been to that sucks.

There are actually some really nice places in North Dakota, the trnp is fantastic, Bismarck is surprisingly good for a small town in the middle of nowhere, and while the highway to cross the state is long and flat like south Dakota, it's actually pretty in places.

 

And don't forget Wall Drug! (How could you? )

 

Thats key and it will help the Arab countries that support Israels right to exist. The economics possibilities are great for those that want peace.

 

No, bring them all to your neighborhood, and let a few live in your house.

 

UPDATED: Richmond passes anti-Israel resolution after ...The Jewish News of Northern Californiahttps://jweekly.com › 2023/10/25 › richmond-city-co...

 

Disgusting.

 

Censored Men seems pretty antisemitic. Propaganda at its best, I guess.

 

A journalist was covering the war when he learned his wife and their two children had been killed in the bombing.

 

showing videos of what some people are doing is antisemitic and propaganda?

 

I looked at other stuff reported and to me it seemed one sided without any rebuke of a hamas brutal crimes. Im for two state and peace where Hamas wants Israel /Jews/ Americans dead. They will tell you so.

 

Not showing both sides doesn't make them antisemitic, though. One sided, fine. But It's ok to call out someone for doing something bad. Calling them antisemitic for doing so reinforces the Israeli actions.

 

I agree with that. But Hamas and supporters of Hamas buy into the doctrine of death to Israel and America.

 

And that is completely irrelevant to calling anyone and everyone who disagrees with Israeli actions an antisemite.