U.S. QUIETLY EXPANDS SECRET MILITARY BASE IN ISRAEL Second Israeli airstrike in two days pummels Gaza refugee camp, deepening a growing outcry Bombing refugees is pretty indefensible. But hey, at least we sent them some gauze? Idk, this whole thing is fucked.
So eliminate Hamas. What Israel is doing now will not reduce the number of threats or increase the likelihood of peace. It will more likely exacerbate the problem.
For several days, there have been reports of Russian troop movement inside of Syria. It is now believed they are manning posts on the border with Israel.
What if there was a murderous gang in SW Portland that kept firing rockets into NE Portland because they shouldn't even exist, and they should all die, even the SW gen population didn't want to be under the Gang rule, but are under seize form the murderous SW gang. NE Portland in order to survive being eliminated by the SW gang, decided that once and for all, to eliminate the rocket fire and terrorist acts for good, of the murderous sw gang. Again Israel wants a two state GAZA and peace accord with Saudi and others that recognize Israel existence. Hamas is no different than ISIS. Is Israel laid down their guns and stuck out a peace offering to Hamas, the Jews would be all eliminated, like what Hitlers goal was. If Hamas laid down their weapons and recognized a two state Israel would offer peace and opportunities. Im all for the Abraham accord as it will be the closest thing to peace in the mid east.
I was on the phone yesterday talking with some people we work with from Israel (very good AI, data engineers there) and we had to stop a couple of times as they all had to go get shelter because of rocket sirens. I think that when you are under direct attack - it is very hard to justify not trying to eliminate the people that are trying to kill you. If there is someone to blame here it is, imho, the Hamas people that do it from within civilian areas instead of away from it. But, they know that if they hide behind civilians and Israel unintentionally hits some civilians everyone will be so upset at Israel instead without offering a proper solution, and if Israel does not try to protect its citizens, they are free to try and kill them without consequence. At the end of the day, Hamas is what is causing it. They leave Israel at a hard place, protect their people and look evil or let their people live under constant terror / death threat. Let's remember that after Israel told people in Gaza to move south Hamas was the one that was blocking roads so people will stay in the north. Terror organizations doing terror things.
This is a very good exchange. Ana Kasperian makes a lot of good points. There's really no other way to see it. Both sides have grievances, and even if you could weigh those grievances and once side out weighs the other, nothing justifies the slaughter of non-combatants. There is also the deeper question, of why the attacks were allowed to happen, it seems to attempt to justify an extreme response, which everyone knows will incite more violence from other Arab nations.
There simply has to be another way to protect yourself than bombing refugees like that. Yes Hamas hides behind civilians, that doesn't give you carte blanche on killing those civilians as collateral damage. What I've seen lately seems almost indiscriminate. These are people with nowhere to go. Simply dropping pamphlets before you bomb a densely populated refugee camp isn't good enough.
What is that method? Seriously? They asked the civilians to leave, gave them over a week head start, Hamas blocked the way to prevent the civilians from leaving and continued to bomb Israeli civilians while hiding behind their own civilians. I am asking why you are not showing the same kind of shock that Hamas is indiscriminately throwing rockets at Israeli civilian centers but when Israel tries to pinpoint attack those that throw these rockets you are upset. It is upsetting that civilians on both sides are affected, but it's not like Israel started this mess nor is it Israel that is trying hide behind the civilians. I just do not hear any solutions other than "lie down and let the bad guys shoot you". I would honestly love to hear a better solution. It is a bad situation, but I just don't see how it is reasonable to expect Israel to let Hamas throw rockets without any repercussions because they (Hamas) are willing to use their own civilians as shields. This is a bit like a cancer situation and unfortunately, the radiation and chemo is hurting some of the good cells. I honestly just do not hear any solution other than "let them kill you". I just do not see how this is a reasonable solution. Is it awful that it happens? Of course. Can you blame Israel from protecting itself from destruction? I can't see how you can, reasonably. Unless the Palestinians get rid of Hamas themselves or a 3rd party like the more moderate Arab countries are willing to step in and ensure that terror organizations do not continue their way, I just do not know what else there is to do to solve this solution.
Sorry. My apologies. I just see people upset that Israel has to protect itself and apparently lumped you among them for no reason. My bad. My point tho, about the situation stays the same. The issue here is that a terror organization is running Gaza and innocent people on both sides are suffering. I can not, reasonably however, blame Israel for trying to protect it's citizens - and unfortunately, it has a cost that most wars have, where innocent people suffer. Logically, I can not blame Israel of doing it, unfortunate as the consequences are. I just don't believe the carte blanche claim you made. If Israel really wanted to do that, they would not have given them a week to evacuate. Let's remember that they can not wait forever, while they are waiting there are innocent people that were abducted and are hostages while millions have to rush to different shelters at any time of the day because of rockets launched at them. Claiming that simply dropping leaflets is not enough is naïve. What do you expect them to do? Again, I am coming back to the question of what is your reasonable solution? If they don't tell them to move, what else can they do to stop the attack on their own people? If you can't come with a better solution, I think it is an unreasonable thing to say.
My 2 cents, The only route I see to stop the killing of Gaza civilians goes through Hamas. If Hamas returned ALL OF THE HOSTAGES, and stopped the rocket attacks on Isreal. The entire world would be against Isreals continued bombing of Gaza civilians. The problem is Hamas, Iran, and Iran's other terrorist groups do not want peace.
Right, I mean if noknobs sitting at his computer in Los Angeles can't come up with a game plan on peace in the middle east I guess bombing densely populated refugee camps makes a lot of sense. Okey dokey.
So, your assertion is that nothing else was tried and failed? Reminder, 1. Israel only had to occupy these areas because it was repeatedly attacked from them by multiple countries over the years since 1948 2. When there was a process for 2 state peace, Israel agreed to let the Palestinians have authority over Gaza and the West bank, as a starting point to peace talks, all the Palestinians had to give to get this authority was for the first time agree that Israel has the right to exist. 3. The people of Gaza had an election, elected Hamas as their leadership, which immediately reneged on the agreement that Israel has the right to exist and resumed terror activities. This is a really simple situation and noknobs, sitting at his computer in Los Angeles has apparently arrived at the simple solution that Israeli civilian life is less valuable than Palestinian civilian life, despite the fact that the entire situation (all the way back to 1948 and more recently with the current war) started because of the Palestinian terror organization. So, yes, I find your conclusions rather questionable.
Hey, whoever you are, fuck you. I get that you're emotional but that's not true at all and I've said nothing to even suggest that. I've arrived at the fact they're equal.
This is a big issue. You can't finalize a peace deal when one side has no desire/intent to live in peace.
