Nope, not what I said. I readily acknowledge that players can and do learn/develop while playing on a terrible team that is routinely blown out (how I would define a "trash team", going back to the post that precipitated this whole discussion). What I said is that I believe that they develop better when they are consistently playing in competitive games than in lopsided ones.
Again, I don't see why having Brogdon as opposed to another vet helps them develop better. Again, staying competitive in games is, more often than not, an effort thing.
I said nothing about Brogdon specifically. Yes, this is the Brogdon thread, but this discussion is more abstract.
Maybe on average that is true. Really depends on the quality of the draft though. Go back and look at some prior ones, some years there's stars in picks 1-6 and other years next to nothing the whole lottery. This 2024 draft projects very bad. Yeah projections aren't perfect, still just doesn't seem like there is the same high expected value of a top pick this year.
Totally disagree. Being competitive is primarily a talent thing. Yeah effort helps, but talent dwarfs that impact.
In my view, being competitive is an individual thing. Being a contender is a team thing. I go over this with my 10 y/o all the time. Individually, players give good/great effort or they are competitors. Competitors are players that make a difference in games. They win their matchups. Doesn't matter if you are a defensive specialist, offensive player, rebounder or whatever. Win your matchups. A good player can dive for a loose ball and might not come up with it. A competitor dives for that same loose ball and comes up with it every time. As for being competitive, that is a team thing and is made up of players winning their matchups by being true competitors. Competitive teams are made up of players winning their matchups consistently. Difference makers.
This is a trade that popped into my head. Blazers get: Hunter, Williams (into TPE), ‘24 SAC lotto protected 1st (top 12 protected in ‘25, top 10 protected in ‘26, ‘27 and ‘28 unprotected 2nds if not conveyed)—we trade Brogdon and the ‘24 Hawks 2nd. Hunter has not lived up to his hype as the #4 pick, but he would still be the second best forward on the team behind Grant. He is 26, cheaper than Grant, and has three years left on his deal. Hunter is a good defender and is respectable from 3, he would be the second best shooting forward behind Grant. Injuries have been an issue in the past, but he did play 67 games last year, 52 the year before that, and has played every game this year. I didn’t want to take a ‘24 1st back, but I think the Raptors will want the unprotected 1st even if it’s five years in the future. The good news would be that we likely secure our two or three favorite players in the draft. Or we can trade one into a future 1st. Williams would just add to the battle at SF/PF. Personally, I still really like Williams as a prospect and prefer him to Murray. Williams is coming along decently as a shot creator, but is no where near the defender anyone thought he’d be. I suspected the shooting woes like everyone else, but he keeps getting better. If Billups can get him to buy in as a defender and he continues to improve as a shooter, his physical talent is going to propel him to becoming an elite 3-D player, and that would be his floor. Hawks get: Siakam—they trade Capela’s expiring, Hunter, AJ Griffin, 2 1sts, and 2 2nds. Siakam being able to share minutes at C with Okungwu at C allows more playing time for Jalen and Saddiq at SF/PF. That’s the team they’re going to be locked into this core for the next several years. Raptors get: Brogdon, Kinnard, Griffin, ‘29 ATL unprotected 1st, ‘24 ATL unprotected 2nd, ‘26 LAC unprotected 2nd, ‘27 LAC unprotected 2nd, ‘28 HOU unprotected 2nd—Raptors trade Siakam. Griffin is still an exciting young prospect, Brogdon is going to be a great starter next to the PG they decide to tank for, and the 2 LAC 2nds should be pretty high. The Hawks are the only team I know of that were willing to offer 2 1sts for Siakam, and even then, they were unwilling to trade Bufkin. Brogdon, OG, Barnes, and Poetl are all guys that are ready to compete, they can draft a guy like Topic and re-sign Trent. Curious to see the final Siakam package. Grizzlies get: Capela—they trade Kinnard’s expiring, Williams, and an LAC 2nd for Capela’s expiring to compete for a playoff berth when Ja is back. Next year, Adams will be expiring and will still be coming off the injury, Capela could be re-signed to play the Adams role going forward, or Memphis could even try to keep both guys around long term. I feel pretty good about all sides getting a fair end. Give me some opinions. Didn’t do trade machine, someone can if they want.
Roster before the draft: Ant/Scoot/Mays Shae/Ant/Thybulle/Rupert Hunter/Camara/Walker/Williams/Kris Grant/Camara/Walker/Williams/Kris DA/____/Reath Then there’s our lotto pick, the GSW 1st, the SAC 1st, and the CHA 2nd. All we would need is more of competition at the PF position for us to feel comfortable with moving Grant for another piece. We need to draft a C, maybe even sign a vet C + draft a C and keep Reath around as an emergency big. But I think this would be a lot of talent to have just one true year into a rebuild, considering we haven’t even added any names from the upcoming draft to that theoretical roster.
Suggest posting a fanspo screenshot - I have no idea what team is giving up or getting what. edit nevermind I see Ptlplad did... thx
Don't see the Raptors interested at all - seems like a weak Siakam return for them. The 2nds and Kennard are near worthless. So basically Brogdon and a 1st... they didn't even want to give up Siakam for Dame! If they do trade Siakam it'll be for a bigger haul or a player younger than Brogdon. Doesn't make sense to swap one 30 year old for a worse one for a playin/lottery team. From Portlands end I don't see Hunter being that significant here long term. Is he the answer long term as a starting forward? If you say yes then that changes the calculus. I'd say no - so whats the point for us to add such player when were rebuilding and already have Thybulle/Camera/Walker in that role? I'd rather target a better pick or two picks. I suppose from Portland end if you are thinking short term and a better roster fit this makes sense. I would rather target long term assets on trades, I'm just not worried about trying to win this or next season.
I was thinking just the opposite. Why would the Hawks give up so much for Siakam, who is not shooting well and is on the last year of his contract?
Agree. Toronto would say no. They would want more for Siakam. I can't see Hawks paying this price either. Portland & Grizz are stealing value here. End of the day - this is DOA.
Malcolm seems like the nicest guy and is a great ball player. I hope he isn't hurt and his knee really was just sore. That being said, we need to move this dude to a contending team in need of a two way win now PG as soon as he is healthy. We aren't winning shit (that means in the playoffs) anytime soon. We need pieces like Malcolm and Jerami on teams that can use them to win in the playoffs now and we need those teams that acquire them to give us assets that make sense for us in the window that we should be expecting to contend in based on the age of our most valuable players on this roster. If you think this is a bad take of mine that I'm sticking with... I seriously question either your intelligence or how losing for so long has inhibited your ability to think clearly about our team.
I really like Brogdon but they need to move him now that Ant is back. Not enough time. Get a 1st and call it a day before he gets a major injury.
Brogdon, yes. Grant, we don’t need to move right away. Unless there is a forward who we think that can be better than Grant down the line, there isn’t a rush. If we draft multiple forwards in the draft (possibly land Sarr), AND a combination of Camara, Walker, or Murray have gotten substantially better, then the need to trade Grant is more palpable.
As much as I love this guy on our team, I think we need to sell high this at the same time giving important growing pain minutes to our youngins.
Since "bad take" was mentioned I'm going to presume you're directing this toward me because I used that term when describing how being married to trading Brogdon ASAP is the only proper path for the team. You can question my intelligence. I'll simply point out that "losing for so long" is two seasons out of the playoffs, one of which Lillard was out most of the year with his core surgery and the other was a season in which we were in or close to at least a play-in spot when we tanked, and I think most fans around any organized sport wouldn't consider going to the postseason eight straight years as losing. We now return you to your regularly-scheduled panty-bunching.
I saw this trade idea from a Jazz-related site: Brogdon + ‘24 ATL 2nd for Olynyk’s expiring + THT + ‘29 top 5 protected MIN 1st That might be the best 1st on the table at the deadline, if the Jazz are willing to part with it. The players aren’t enticing. Olynyk has all the same problems as Reath, and THT isn’t a long term piece.
