Duop > Ayton?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by B-Roy, Dec 12, 2023.

  1. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    At least offensively?



    Pretty extensive thread about how awful Ayton is at setting screns.
     
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  2. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Except our rebounding has been ass, and Zubac was feasting on us.
     
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  3. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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  4. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    I've been critical of Duop, but it's hard to argue the effectiveness. Some combination of his shooting + knowing how to play just works with this team. Too bad he's rough defensively and on the boards.
     
  5. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    He's a nice change of pace because of his shooting. I wish we had Rob to pair him with.
     
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  6. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    All I know is, the coaches LOVE this kid. Works his ass off and has a great attitude. Been pleasantly surprised by hi play that’s for sure. Very cool guy if that means anything.
     
  7. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

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    No.
     
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  8. Mr. Robot

    Mr. Robot Well-Known Member

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    ill tell you something, im not missing nurk not being on our team at all

    after kanter > nurk, whiteside > nurk, eubanks > nurk, now we have duop > ayton, this forum certainly remains loyal to whatever this is
     
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  9. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    considering the huge differential in observable talent, that this is even brought up seems crazy.

    some statistical snapshots:

    upload_2023-12-12_10-19-56.png

    *********************************************************************************************************************

    and the on/off comparison:

    upload_2023-12-12_10-21-55.png
    upload_2023-12-12_10-22-37.png
    upload_2023-12-12_10-23-15.png

    one other set of numbers is that opposing teams have an offensive rating of 115.0 when Ayton is on court and 114.5 when he's off court. Opponents have an offensive rating of 108.8 when Reath is on court and 116.3 when he's off court. Suggesting that Portland's defense is 0.5 points worse with Ayton and 7.5 points better with Reath

    ****************************************************************

    there are obviously other factors at work in these numbers other than just Ayton vs Reath. Like rotations and quality of opponents, etc.. Still, I'm a little surprised at how Portland plays with Reath vs how they play with Ayton. Not very surprised because I have always thought Ayton is overrated and that the least important position in today's NBA is C, unless that C has generational talent.

    I do think it's pretty notable that Reath is a poor rebounder for a C and not a paint presence on defense or a rim protector, but the Blazers appear to play better with Reath than with Ayton. Might just be some statistical skew and artifacts at this point but it's worth tracking. Of course, my bias is I'd rather have Nurkic than Ayton
     
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  10. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    Yep. Ayton looks way more talented out there but for whatever reason the Blazers play better with Reath on the floor. That was the point of the thread.
     
  11. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Is it possible..... that Sharpe's improvement has more to do with Anfernee Simons returning?

    Ayton has played a grand total of... what.... 2 quarters(?) with Simons. Reath has played the last three games with Simons. Reath hasn't even played 50% of the minutes that Ayton has this season. He has been the starter the last three games. I would think that would have a large impact on such a small sample size. How many minutes has Shaedon played with Reath compared to Ayton?
     
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  12. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

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    Shaedon has played 127 minutes with Reath. He has an ORTG of 119.89, 21.84 USG%, 61.59 TS%, 1.06 PPP
    He has played 465 minutes with Ayton. ORTG of 103.56, 2193 USG%, 50.7 TS%, and .84 PPP

    Of course, it's not a fair direct comparison, because it doesn't factor in everyone else on the court, and who the opponents are, etc.
     
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  13. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    Hasn't Ayton talked about wanting to be a PF before? I think we should grant him that opportunity. He seems like a PF trapped in a center's body.
     
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  14. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

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    Wow some inside info. I knew you could do it! Good job!! Dude seems like a gem.
     
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  15. Whyachi

    Whyachi Well-Known Member

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    Points in paint have been leaning heavily in opponents favor since Ayton's injury. It's not a sustainable way to keep games competitive. If the rapid fire Blazer 3-point shots stop falling, Portland is gonna get smoked on the scoreboard.

    Don't want to take anything away from Reath, he's been a very decent pick & pop role playing Center. But Ayton has shown a much, much better knack for getting stops, boards, and finishing around the rim.
     
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  16. MickZagger

    MickZagger Well-Known Member

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    Reath is the perfect change of pace, spread the floor 5 coming off the bench. Starter, no.
     
  17. BankTeller

    BankTeller Well-Known Member

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    A perfect emergency big. Similar to Mays, but for centers. Reath is a great two-way contract.
     
  18. MickZagger

    MickZagger Well-Known Member

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    Not even emergency really. I wouldn’t mind tossing him out there every game just to see if his jumpers on, or not.

    Mays is decent but damn does he dribble the air out of the ball with no real plan.
     
  19. BankTeller

    BankTeller Well-Known Member

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    I’m not really interested in him during a year where we really compete. I want to double dip at center this year, and I think there are more than a few guys that would be better players than Reath right away. Even PJ Hall, a guy who a team will draft with no expectation that he will become anything more then a role player, is going to be way more effective right away because outside of being about to shoot a 3, he also will hustle on the boards and can protect the rim a little bit. I’d much rather draft him in the 2nd round and play him as a third string center than actually have Reath be a third string center.
     
  20. MarinerDNA

    MarinerDNA Active Member

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    Bingo. Sharpe is better off ball than being an initiator on offense. He looked uncomfortable in that role. Could be a reason why Ant and Dame never had huge performances in the same game but with Sharpe and Ant it's the opposite.
     

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