Draft Philosophy: 3 OR D?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Wizard Mentor, May 29, 2024.

  1. Pinwheel1

    Pinwheel1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    22,651
    Likes Received:
    15,095
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree. A 3-and-D player has to be able to put the ball on the floor when the defender is running out on him. They seldom will be able to get all the way to the rim, so they need to have the ability to consistently knock down a mid-range jumper to be effective.
     
    Wizard Mentor likes this.
  2. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    10,361
    Likes Received:
    9,325
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think there are this many absolutes. Any 5 man lineup can get by with one player that can't shoot threes, one player that can't get to the rim, one player that can't defend great, etc. If you have a guy who is an excellent defender as well as an excellent 3 point shooter you might be able to still easily build a contending roster with him as a piece, you just need more playmaking at other positions.

    You first need a couple stars that are multi dimensional on offense. If they are good on defense that makes the rest of the roster construction much easier.

    Some of this is relevant to the failure of all those DameCJ teams. It is very difficult to get frontcourt players that have enough excellent defense to cover both of those guys terrible defense, but still contribute enough on offense 3 point spacing, then finally provide some playmaking when short DameCJ get trapped.
     
  3. cheesehoff

    cheesehoff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    482
    Likes Received:
    599
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Oregon
    From an early age we see that scorers get all the attention. Defense often goes unseen and unappreciated. Shooting is much easier to teach than D, especially at the earlier stages of learning the game.
    Shooting can be boiled down to a few things (I know it's not that easy, but for the sake of this discussion...)
    *Fundamentals-Good, easily repeatable form. Footwork, very overlooked.
    *Repetition-Practice, practice, practice. You are training your muscles just like writing, running, talking, etc. FT's are about 90% muscle memory. Having hours every day to practice, world class teachers and staff to rebound and feed the ball are very important.
    *Confidence-Once you've shot thousands of shots in practice, translating that to games isn't easy. Having confidence in yourself isn't the only thing. Having the confidence of your teammates and coaches can be just as important.
    Defense is more complicated for a number of reasons.
    *You can't go out and practice without someone else.
    *It's harder physically than shooting. You have to be pretty tough to excel, mentally & physically.
    *Developing individual defense is only part of being a good team defender. Schemes can affect this.
    *Communication-One of the hardest things to teach. Learning the verbage that is used is about breaking and relearning a habit that happens in a split second.
    *Athleticism-There is a certain level of physical ability and genetics that can make the difference between being good vs being great. You are assigned to defend a short, quick ball-handler and a second later you've switched onto a 7' bully. Good defenders make it hard for anyone to score.
    *Confidence-You'll never stop a good score everytime he shoots. Just like a CB in football, you have to have a short memory.
    *Mental prep-Knowing your opponent's strengths & weaknesses, knowing their offense, etc.

    Sorry for the novel. I just wanted to point out the complexities and nuances of being a shut-down defender vs being a knock-down shooter. I'm sure I missed a few things, too. (I was a shooter, not a defender, but not from a lack of effort.)
     
    Wizard Mentor likes this.
  4. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    34,272
    Likes Received:
    43,611
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I was always precisely the opposite.
     
    Wizard Mentor likes this.
  5. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2014
    Messages:
    21,642
    Likes Received:
    17,884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We have one of the better d players in the league and people want him gone because he's not a prolific scorer. He has improved his 3 more so than Simons has his D.
     
    Wizard Mentor and cheesehoff like this.
  6. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    92,730
    Likes Received:
    55,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    We have guys who are great defenders who can't shoot.

    Thybulle
    Camara

    We need shooters. This is why I'm so intrigued by Knecht.
     
    Wizard Mentor and Hoopguru like this.
  7. Samuel

    Samuel James “Hollywood” Robinson

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,909
    Likes Received:
    1,783
    Trophy Points:
    113
    like salaun, knecht scares me at 7. i'm fine with him at 14—he probably won't drop that far though.

    the defensive issues will keep him from starter minutes.
     
    Wizard Mentor likes this.
  8. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    40,819
    Likes Received:
    25,038
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballin'
    Yeah, there just don't seem to be any Kyle Korvers any more.
     
  9. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    92,730
    Likes Received:
    55,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    This is why I'd love to pick up another lottery pick in this draft.

    If we could get one of Holland/Williams/Castle at 7

    And Knecht in the 8-10 range

    And then Ware/Missi/Salaun (project) at 14
     
    Wizard Mentor and Pinwheel1 like this.
  10. Samuel

    Samuel James “Hollywood” Robinson

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,909
    Likes Received:
    1,783
    Trophy Points:
    113
    if you're using tisse/2nds to move up that's fine but brogdon or firsts to move up is a no no, IMO.
     
  11. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    92,730
    Likes Received:
    55,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Brogdon is basically only worth a first, so if we can get the 10th or 11th for Brogdon, that’s a good deal.
     
  12. cheesehoff

    cheesehoff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    482
    Likes Received:
    599
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Oregon
    I haven't seen this guy on any mocks. You could say there's a reason for that, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone gave him a chance. I think he's the best 3 & D guy in the draft, just ahead of his teammate Ja'Kobe Walter.
     
  13. Samuel

    Samuel James “Hollywood” Robinson

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,909
    Likes Received:
    1,783
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not in this draft! No more 2024 picks! Please!
     
    Wizard Mentor likes this.
  14. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    92,730
    Likes Received:
    55,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I’m not sure anyone is gonna give us a 2025 pick for him. And I love the idea of getting another pick in the lottery in a draft that people are undervaluing.
     
  15. Samuel

    Samuel James “Hollywood” Robinson

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,909
    Likes Received:
    1,783
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I’d be fine being wrong about that later. Why not be patient? Per Highkin these were the types of picks available at the deadline that the Blazers passed on.
     
  16. oldfisherman

    oldfisherman Unicorn Wrangler

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3,806
    Likes Received:
    5,493
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Podunk suburbs
    Wizard Mentor likes this.
  17. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    10,361
    Likes Received:
    9,325
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's why it was so stupid to match the Thybulle contract. Pushes us into the luxury tax and solves zero need.
     

Share This Page