Not that I'm a Clingan expert, but this is what they dismissed about Bam. Maybe we can compare and breakdown his stats to Bam in this context. College is notorious for structuring players to a play a certain role. We've heard inklings of Clingan's passing ability for a while now. It's hard to project since it wasn't his primary role at the college level. He might very well be an above average passer that never got the opportunity to showcase that skill set.
Derrick Lively had some very impressive advances stats - Some of his advanced stats: - PER: 22.6 (20 is typical for drafted college players) - BPM: 9.3 (7.5 is typical) - WS/40: 0.201 (0.175 is typical) - ORat: 133.9 (114 is typical) - DRat: 91.1 (98 is typical) And his difference between ORat and DRat was top in the nation. When Lively is on the floor, he impacts the game significantly more than his raw stats indicate.
Do you have a table like this for the '24 draft? It doesn't look like any of the GLeague or Europeans are included.... correct?
I've seen Lively play credible defense when he's switched onto SG's and SF's because he has really good lateral mobility and reactions. I don't think there's a chance at all Clingan can do that. They are completely different types of players and that fundamental difference is a big reason why Dallas is in the finals and Minny has gone fishing
I think you are wrong, but we will see soon. If he as bad as you predict he will fall out of the lottery Im sure, hell, maybe go un-drafted. They are not identical type players for sure. Both have their strengths and weakness's like any other player.
how did you arrive at that? Sure wasn't from anything I said teams always reach in the draft. Clingan drafted in the top-10 of most drafts would be a reach, IMO. Maybe not in this draft. I'm not saying he is "bad". I'm saying he will have limited utility in the modern NBA. I'd think his best case ceiling would be some version of Gobert, but he will very likely fall short of that standard. Maybe that's enough for some teams; maybe enough for Portland. I hope not unless the Blazers drafting him means they will be trading Ayton. Because the notion that Ayton and Clingan could play effectively together is fucking nuts
Dallas, with two bigs like Ware, just crushed Minny, with 2 bigs like Clingan who are both likely much better than Clingan will ever be. IMO, C's like Clingan are an anachronism in the modern NBA. Sometimes, there might be value in zagging while most others are zigging, but this would be the wrong zag for a 7th pick You stated above that in your opinion the two bigs Dallas has are much better than Clingan will ever be? I feel he could (just a wild as guess) be a better rim protector and defender than those two. But I could be wrong just like you could be wrong... I would select a number of players before The Clingon.
thanks for posting that. It's about the first half-hour plus scouting video I've been willing to watch * he's much higher on Clingan than I am. Granted, a lot of my antipaty to Clingan is based upon how I view the NBA's evolution away from traditional C's. I've said before that if Clingan falls to 7, while I wouldn't be enthusiastic at all about Portland drafting him at 7, I'd be ok with it providing it meant the Blazers were actively shopping Ayton * Taylor sure seems to share my opinion on Ayton. He made a point of dismissing Ayton's skills a couple of times and suggested the Blazers should try and dump him. If the Blazers do draft Clingan, I think the chances that Ayton will become a malcontent and a locker room disruption are pretty high * the mock he was using had Portland drafting Knecht & Ware. On paper, that would seem a decent 1st round for Portland * if I was to go by this person's evaluations, and I wanted Portland to roll the dice on players with the highest ceilings, then at 7 the Blazers would take Salaun; and at 14, they'd take Ware * Ware vs Clingan: I just think Ware has the potential to be a modern NBA C; similar to Lively, Gafford, Claxton, maybe best case is a Holmgren. Meanwile, Clingan looks more like a Zubac or Poeltl with a best case being Gobert. But Gobert is a 4-time DPOY ; a 7-time all-NBA-Defense first team; and a 4-time all-NBA. So it seems unrealistic to claim Clingan's ceiling is that high
You didn't say that he would go undrafted, its was me that said "maybe if he not as good as you think he could drop out of the lottery", then I sarcastically said "hell maybe he will go un-drafted. I interrupted how you fell about him and the conflict with today's game that he wasn't as good as Dallas two bigs....With the draft the fun thing about it, we will all find out just how wrong we were on certain players!
Wiz, you know Ive always respected and agreed with most your takes on the game, and you could be right on this one as well.
just to clarify, I wasn't saying that Lively/Gafford are better than Gobert/KAT; just that they fit a modern NBA roster better and are at minimum, just as impactful. In that playoff series, the big rotations were KAT+Gobert+Reid at 90M in salary vs Gafford + Lively at 17M. That saved 73M allowed for a lot of options elsewhere...like Kyrie I don't have a big problem with Clingan being a Blazer C. I do have a big problem with Ayton + Timelord + Clingan + Reath all being Blazer C's. That would be over 55M in salary; nearly 40% of the cap. And there's not a mobile C in that quartet
