<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Street @ Jun 19 2006, 10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I am not sure if you are aware of the Miami Dolphin's record last regular season. If not then, I will assure you that they were one game away from making the playoffs. With a learning team last season going 9 - 7, I don't see they will be worse. They improved at the QB position by going from a 3rd string on some teams to the 1st string in the pro bowl at times. Brown has just gotten better and Chambers and McMichael were dominant at their positions. Also, the Dolphin's defense is always solid. For the Patriots, I dont see how you see them finishing the same. With Mangini gone, it just gives more work for Bellichek and they lost Vinateri (I know some may say that he is only a kicker and they can be replaced, but he might have won the Patriots maybe two games last season at least and that is what made the playoffs compared to what would not have made the playoffs). They did not improve at any position to be honest with you. So, I just don't see how they will finish the same. I see an 7 - 9 -- 9 - 7 season for the Patriots finishing behind the Dolphins.</div>Im well aware of their record last season and there little 6 game win streak to end the season.Im also well aware of the teams they beat to get there...Oakland (Picked #7 in the Draft)Buffalo (Picked #8 in the Draft)San Diego (Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde last season...Dolphins got the bad Chargers)NY Jets (Picked #4 in the Draft)Tennessee (Picked #3 in the Draft) New England (Week 17, Backups played half the game for New England and for what would have been the Game-Tying 2 PT conversion Matt Cassel launched a lob about 15 feet over his WR's head to get a favorable Playoff Matchup against the Jags instead of the Steelers. Coincidence? I think not.)Daunte Culpepper is coming off of a shredded knee and his worst career season. Not to mention that any time Daunte Culpepper doesnt have 2 'Excellent WR's' (Carter, Moss, Burleson) he struggles. Their backup is a career bust. Ronnie Brown might have improved, but hes gotta make up alot of Slack for not having Ricky Williams there and now he will have to deal with the wear and tear of a 300 carry season. Will he hold up? Keep in mind this guy was a career backup to Cadillac in college, he has NEVER had to handle that many carries in the past. He was wearing down the stretch when he only had 207 carries (YPC of 2.4, 2.7, 3.8, DNP, 2.6 his last 5 games). There defense has gotten worse with the losses of Madison and Seau and Sedrick Hodge and Will Allen are nowheres near the players they lost. This team is a pretender and everyone will see it come the beginning of the regular season.
Ok, lets take the schedule path. In Miami's first six games:Week 1: Steelers (2006 Super Bowl Champs)Week 2: Buffalo (Pick #8)Week 3: Titans (Pick #3)Week 4: Texans (Pick #1)Week 5: Patriots (2006 AFC East Champs)Week 6: Jets (Pick #4)Week 7: Packers (Pick #5)Week 8: ByeIn this scenario Ill give you the Patriots beating the Dolphins. And even if Big Ben is not back from his motocycle injury by Week 1 to face off against the Dolphins, Ill still give the Steelers the edge. So, by Week 9, they will be 5 - 2, which should be good for first place. Afterall, you and I have both agreed that this is a weak division, so I dont think that neither of us can speculate that anyone will have only one loss, let alone be undefeated.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jun 19 2006, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Im well aware of their record last season and there little 6 game win streak to end the season.Im also well aware of the teams they beat to get there...Oakland (Picked #7 in the Draft)Buffalo (Picked #8 in the Draft)San Diego (Dr. Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde last season...Dolphins got the bad Chargers)NY Jets (Picked #4 in the Draft)Tennessee (Picked #3 in the Draft) New England (Week 17, Backups played half the game for New England and for what would have been the Game-Tying 2 PT conversion Matt Cassel launched a lob about 15 feet over his WR's head to get a favorable Playoff Matchup against the Jags instead of the Steelers. Coincidence? I think not.)Daunte Culpepper is coming off of a shredded knee and his worst career season. Not to mention that any time Daunte Culpepper doesnt have 2 'Excellent WR's' (Carter, Moss, Burleson) he struggles. Their backup is a career bust. Ronnie Brown might have improved, but hes gotta make up alot of Slack for not having Ricky Williams there and now he will have to deal with the wear and tear of a 300 carry season. Will he hold up? Keep in mind this guy was a career backup to Cadillac in college, he has NEVER had to handle that many carries in the past. He was wearing down the stretch when he only had 207 carries (YPC of 2.4, 2.7, 3.8, DNP, 2.6 his last 5 games). There defense has gotten worse with the losses of Madison and Seau and Sedrick Hodge and Will Allen are nowheres near the players they lost. This team is a pretender and everyone will see it come the beginning of the regular season.</div>Damn, good assessment I agree with everything you said
Also, players that the Patriots' have lostmain ones in bold)Adam Vinatieri PK Andre' Davis WR Cedric James WR Chad Scott CB Christian Fauria TE David Givens WR Don Davis LB Doug Flutie QB Hank Poteat CB Heath Evans FB Matt Chatham LB Michael Stone S Mike Cloud RB Stephen Nea OG Tim Dwight WR Tom Ashworth OT Troy Brown WR Far worse hit to their team than the Dolphin's losses were to theirs. Just my opinion. Again, the schedule argument does not work in this case, because they have an easier schedule this year. How they are going to lose more games than they did last year does not make sense and you still have not been able to back it up.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Street @ Jun 19 2006, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Also, players that the Patriots' have lostmain ones in bold)Chad Scott CB Hank Poteat CB Mike Cloud RB Tim Dwight WR Tom Ashworth OT Troy Brown WR Far worse hit to their team than the Dolphin's losses were to theirs. Just my opinion. Again, the schedule argument does not work in this case, because they have an easier schedule this year. How they are going to lose more games than they did last year does not make sense and you still have not been able to back it up.</div>Wow, really good job touching up on who were the key players the Pats lost. 1. Chad Scott played mostly nickel or dime defense, not much of a loss. Scratch the main there.2. Hank Poteat. Who? (I know who he is, but he didn't do anything during the season). Scratch him.3. Mike Cloud is laughable, they didn't even need his mediocre play. He sucks. Scratch him.4. Tim Dwight did nothing on offense and sucked at returning this year. Scratched.5. Why is he not a main loss? He was a pretty good component in the offensive lines semi-good year. Added.6. Oh yeah, the old man who did next to nothing this year out of the slot, or anywhere lined up. Scratched.So, that leaves us with maybe 1 decent loss they suffered. Big deal. Dolphins are old, their losing a lot more than the Patriots. Let's name just the major losses for them.1. Junior Seau - Despite his age, he could be a good mentor and leader to the next generation LB's in Miami.2. Ricky Williams - Despite his problems with the NFL, he will be missed this whole year and is in the CFL.3. Sam Madison - A huge disappointing loss for this defensive core. Probably the only achieving of their DB's.Now, additions that hurt the Dolphins.1. Daunte Culpepper - Coming off surgery only a few short months ago for his leg, and a career low in achieving as a QB he will damage this offense if he starts this season from week 1. You cannot expect to come back in under a year from tearing 3 major ligaments and not even giving them a year to heal, which 2 of the 3 usually take longer. 2. Will Allen - Maybe the worst coverage corner to play the game as a top 2 CB on a team. He sucked on the Giants, what makes you think he will exceed in Miami.That's all there is to it.
You might say that Culpepper is a downgrade, but remember who they had last season. Also, you have to remember that Culpepper did not have any weapons on the offensive end of the ball. The pickup of Will Allen was basically based on the loss of Sam Madison. But, think about it. Who else were they going to pick up. Will Allen > 4th string. And I bolded the three wide recievers because well, who does Brady have to throw the ball. Dwight was not a bad returner at all, so that has to be considered a loss, if Ricky Williams was. Williams did nothing that Brown couldn't except for give a few pointers here and there on how to smoke marijuana.And I can say just as much as them losing Troy Brown is big because he could have been a mentor toward the new young WR core since your mentioning that Seau could have been a good mentor toward the new LB core.And every defensive player that the Pats lose is big. Its not like other teams where players like Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Dre Bly, etc. lead the offense and if they have a bad game/bad season, then there defense will have a bad season. Scott was a great key player and he was an important loss.Mike Cloud -- Great blocker. Even though he is posted as a RB, he really is a FB. He played a big part in blocking for Brady along with the OL.I do have to give your props man. My bad on Ashworth. I guessed I just missed him completely when going down the list.But, now. With Dillon getting up there in age, who does Brady have to throw the ball to besides for his TE, Graham. Miami has a much more experienced defensive core and WILL put points up on the board. Culpepper might not start the first game, but that might be a good thing. They will probably lose anyways and they are facing one of the top defenses in the league (from last year at least).Dolphins offense > Patriots offense. And you have to remember that the Dolphins, even with the loss of Madison do not have a bad offense at all.
Also, just in case you say that the Pat's defense even though getting old are still a great unit, look at this:<div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'>2005 Regular SeasonNFL ? AFC ? NFC Total Defense TeamGPlysYds/GY/PFD/G3rd Md3rd Att3rd %4th Md4th Att4th %PenPenYdsTOPTFLTampa Bay16950277.84.715.97521435.071838.910883029:152513Chicago161034281.84.416.27623831.962030.0118101631:192610Carolina16981282.64.616.49022140.751631.2128104529:122519Pittsburgh16998284.04.617.29223239.761735.3120103128:443015Baltimore16998284.74.617.37921936.141233.311084429:382714Jacksonville16963290.94.817.16720532.741428.6130105528:27219Green Bay16969293.14.817.57420635.93837.59897529:123311Arizona16936295.65.117.06719634.241136.410381928:402411Washington16981297.94.916.18122236.551338.510587928:273212Dallas16946300.95.116.07321134.671163.6142101527:362111Indianapolis16953307.15.216.87620736.7142458.311985729:383213New York (A)161047308.84.720.18821241.5141782.411598133:23247San Diego16999309.25.019.17921237.3102050.011083128:262310New Orleans16946312.15.317.68922040.53475.012798529:28199Denver16985312.95.118.47620736.7101952.613998927:232916Cleveland161021316.85.018.28721540.581844.49771632:00218Seattle161041316.84.918.48923438.0121963.212390930:432511Miami161078317.44.719.99523640.381942.110582732:353517Tennessee16960319.45.318.47120035.571163.69571828:472011Detroit161006322.45.119.28220839.461154.513095330:472412Minnesota161029323.35.019.09522143.051338.513799031:142211Atlanta161001325.05.219.95819230.2101662.511498130:022213Philadelphia161038325.45.018.18023334.371163.611291031:382510New York (N)161049327.55.018.99423639.861250.0136118029:342920Kansas City16971328.15.418.27820637.971936.89080527:513315New England16997330.25.319.19221942.03933.3132106829:41138Oakland161029330.85.118.79222640.73933.310182531:532214Cincinnati16976338.75.620.18119042.661442.911098529:093113Buffalo161030343.55.321.49320046.571258.312490430:562413St. Louis161007350.15.620.18019940.22922.2117106629:462714Houston161012364.05.821.87519638.3132065.010584631:50249San Francisco161090391.25.720.98722638.5111957.912096132:421810</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Street @ Jun 20 2006, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And I can say just as much as them losing Troy Brown is big because he could have been a mentor toward the new young WR core since your mentioning that Seau could have been a good mentor toward the new LB core.</div>One problem there buddy, HE RESIGNED.Also, with your comments about the Pats Defense, you do realize that last season they had Richard Seymour, Tedy Bruschi, and Rodney Harrison all miss significant time. If your playing without your 3 best players on one side of the ball, your not going to do well. Period. If you'll notice once Seymour and Bruschi got healthy and back on the field there defense was about 250% better towards the end of the season. Yeah, they lost a couple cornerbacks though....they do this every year. In there system they have been able to plug in players like Randall Gay, Ellis Hobbs, Earthwind Moreland, Dexter Reid, Tyrone Poole, and by the way Chad Scott. Since hes on their active roster still. http://www.ourlads.com/secure/depthchart.cfm?index1=neHavent you figured out that they could plug just about anybody in that secondary and they'll do fine by now?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>But, now. With Dillon getting up there in age, who does Brady have to throw the ball to besides for his TE, Graham. Miami has a much more experienced defensive core and WILL put points up on the board. Culpepper might not start the first game, but that might be a good thing. They will probably lose anyways and they are facing one of the top defenses in the league (from last year at least).</div>Maybe you forgot who Laurence Maroney was...And who do they have to throw the ball to? How about Deion Branch, Chad Jackson, Reche Caldwell and Troy Brown and a rising star in the league in Ben Watson at TE.
i can see how the Jets may surprise a lot of people, but which do you want?one 8-8 season and then back to developing a rookie QB, or doingterrible next year, getting another high draft pick and giving Clemens time to develop
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nebkreb @ Jun 20 2006, 05:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i can see how the Jets may surprise a lot of people, but which do you want?one 8-8 season and then back to developing a rookie QB, or doingterrible next year, getting another high draft pick and giving Clemens time to develop</div>How about 8-8 with Clemens behind Center?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jun 20 2006, 05:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Street @ Jun 20 2006, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And I can say just as much as them losing Troy Brown is big because he could have been a mentor toward the new young WR core since your mentioning that Seau could have been a good mentor toward the new LB core.</div>One problem there buddy, HE RESIGNED.Also, with your comments about the Pats Defense, you do realize that last season they had Richard Seymour, Tedy Bruschi, and Rodney Harrison all miss significant time. If your playing without your 3 best players on one side of the ball, your not going to do well. Period. If you'll notice once Seymour and Bruschi got healthy and back on the field there defense was about 250% better towards the end of the season. Yeah, they lost a couple cornerbacks though....they do this every year. In there system they have been able to plug in players like Randall Gay, Ellis Hobbs, Earthwind Moreland, Dexter Reid, Tyrone Poole, and by the way Chad Scott. Since hes on their active roster still. http://www.ourlads.com/secure/depthchart.cfm?index1=neHavent you figured out that they could plug just about anybody in that secondary and they'll do fine by now?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>But, now. With Dillon getting up there in age, who does Brady have to throw the ball to besides for his TE, Graham. Miami has a much more experienced defensive core and WILL put points up on the board. Culpepper might not start the first game, but that might be a good thing. They will probably lose anyways and they are facing one of the top defenses in the league (from last year at least).</div>Maybe you forgot who Laurence Maroney was...And who do they have to throw the ball to? How about Deion Branch, Chad Jackson, Reche Caldwell and Troy Brown and a rising star in the league in Ben Watson at TE.</div>Tell me this. What are you predicting the Patriot's record will be and what will the Dolphin's record be?
[quote name='Street' post='54130' date='Jun 20 2006, 06:10 AM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='54115' date='Jun 20 2006, 05:47 AM'][quote name='Street' post='54110' date='Jun 20 2006, 01:46 AM']And I can say just as much as them losing Troy Brown is big because he could have been a mentor toward the new young WR core since your mentioning that Seau could have been a good mentor toward the new LB core.[/quote]One problem there buddy, HE RESIGNED.Also, with your comments about the Pats Defense, you do realize that last season they had Richard Seymour, Tedy Bruschi, and Rodney Harrison all miss significant time. If your playing without your 3 best players on one side of the ball, your not going to do well. Period. If you'll notice once Seymour and Bruschi got healthy and back on the field there defense was about 250% better towards the end of the season. Yeah, they lost a couple cornerbacks though....they do this every year. In there system they have been able to plug in players like Randall Gay, Ellis Hobbs, Earthwind Moreland, Dexter Reid, Tyrone Poole, and by the way Chad Scott. Since hes on their active roster still. http://www.ourlads.com/secure/depthchart.cfm?index1=neHavent you figured out that they could plug just about anybody in that secondary and they'll do fine by now? Maybe you forgot who Laurence Maroney was...And who do they have to throw the ball to? How about Deion Branch, Chad Jackson, Reche Caldwell and Troy Brown and a rising star in the league in Ben Watson at TE.[/quote]Tell me this. What are you predicting the Patriot's record will be and what will the Dolphin's record be?[/quote]Pats probably about 10-6, they have gotten a bit worse, but still far and away the best in the division.Dolphins if they're lucky they'll win 8....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jun 20 2006, 06:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dolphins if they're lucky they'll win 8....</div>You say this because last year they had a nice 6 game winning streak because of their easy schedule at the end of last season, right?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Street @ Jun 20 2006, 06:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jun 20 2006, 06:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dolphins if they're lucky they'll win 8....</div>You say this because last year they had a nice 6 game winning streak because of their easy schedule at the end of last season, right?</div>No, I say it because they're not a very good football team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jun 20 2006, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Street @ Jun 20 2006, 06:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jun 20 2006, 06:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dolphins if they're lucky they'll win 8....</div>You say this because last year they had a nice 6 game winning streak because of their easy schedule at the end of last season, right?</div>No, I say it because they're not a very good football team.</div>You say that they acheived 9 wins because they had a nice 6 game winning streak because of their easy schedule at the end of last season. By the end of their bye week, right before Week 9, do you see the teams they are playing?
[quote name='Street' post='54215' date='Jun 20 2006, 10:55 AM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='54209' date='Jun 20 2006, 10:30 AM'][quote name='Street' post='54150' date='Jun 20 2006, 06:54 AM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='54136' date='Jun 20 2006, 06:25 AM']Dolphins if they're lucky they'll win 8....[/quote]You say this because last year they had a nice 6 game winning streak because of their easy schedule at the end of last season, right?[/quote]No, I say it because they're not a very good football team.[/quote]You say that they acheived 9 wins because they had a nice 6 game winning streak because of their easy schedule at the end of last season. By the end of their bye week, right before Week 9, do you see the teams they are playing?[/quote]Some much improved teams....It's impossible to tell how easy/hard there schedule really is at this point. In the past 5 years, only 50% of the teams have earned Top 10 picks in 2 consecutive years. So likely half of those 'bad teams' wont be bad teams in 2006. And Detroit is the only one to have done it 5 consecutive years, which kinda weighs down the odds in their favor.
[quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='54218' date='Jun 20 2006, 11:10 AM'][quote name='Street' post='54215' date='Jun 20 2006, 10:55 AM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='54209' date='Jun 20 2006, 10:30 AM'][quote name='Street' post='54150' date='Jun 20 2006, 06:54 AM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='54136' date='Jun 20 2006, 06:25 AM']Dolphins if they're lucky they'll win 8....[/quote]You say this because last year they had a nice 6 game winning streak because of their easy schedule at the end of last season, right?[/quote]No, I say it because they're not a very good football team.[/quote]You say that they acheived 9 wins because they had a nice 6 game winning streak because of their easy schedule at the end of last season. By the end of their bye week, right before Week 9, do you see the teams they are playing?[/quote]Some much improved teams....It's impossible to tell how easy/hard there schedule really is at this point. In the past 5 years, only 50% of the teams have earned Top 10 picks in 2 consecutive years. So likely half of those 'bad teams' wont be bad teams in 2006. And Detroit is the only one to have done it 5 consecutive years, which kinda weighs down the odds in their favor.[/quote]Since I am a Jet fan, I hope your right, but I dont see 6/7 - 5/7 of those offenses better than the Dolphins and the Dolphin's defense is equal, if not better to 4/7 - 5/7 of them.
I don't know where your coming up with the Dolphins defense being any good. Maybe some 30+ year old veterans who can't even pursue the football means their good. Their leader is Zach Thomas, surpassing the age of 33, wow nice way to have a team, not to mention no DB's. Oh wait I know!! Will Allen
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jun 20 2006, 05:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nebkreb @ Jun 20 2006, 05:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>i can see how the Jets may surprise a lot of people, but which do you want?one 8-8 season and then back to developing a rookie QB, or doingterrible next year, getting another high draft pick and giving Clemens time to develop</div>How about 8-8 with Clemens behind Center? </div>if that happens, then Clemens = ROY
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ Jun 20 2006, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know where your coming up with the Dolphins defense being any good. Maybe some 30+ year old veterans who can't even pursue the football means their good. Their leader is Zach Thomas, surpassing the age of 33, wow nice way to have a team, not to mention no DB's. Oh wait I know!! Will Allen </div>I believe someone said earlier in the thread that the Patriots D really picked it up when Bruschi came back and took lead to the team. Lets take a look at how old they are:Teddy Bruschi: 34Rodney Harrison: 34 (Going on 35)Larry Izzo: 33And more. Dont use the old excuse because it can work both ways. Look shit up before you say shit.
