Anfernee Simons trade destinations

Ya, it all depends on what expectations one puts on a player. We spent years developing Ant, he is still 25. Yes I get that we have Scoot and Sharpe, but Scoot is far from ready and we haven't really seen what all 3 can do together for long stretches.

Once again, my thoughts about moving Ant, is I'm fine with it if we get equal return for him. But basically all suggestions here about getting rid of Ant is crap to me, you guys act like Ant is a vet that we should trade away. If you can spin a trade for Lauri Markkanen, I'm more than fine with it.

 

Two years ago: Dame/CJ/Hart/Grant/Nurk was more talented than Simons/Sharpe/Avdija/Grant/Ayton. Could the second line up end up being better? Sure. Will they? Who knows.

Again, I do like optimistic Nate, so I'm trying to not crap on your party too much.

 

Ill add many more, Fox from the King, Sabonis from the Kings, Haliburton, Jokic from Denver. Booker from PHX, Brunson, Tray Young, Curry. Dame...

Yes I put in some big's too, but the point is, you can mask poor defense with what you put around them and team defense.

 

One problem with your post.

CJ was traded for Hart.

 

let's go ahead and add Curry and make it a foursome, then add Ant for comparison (CJ too)...

career BPM:

Doncic +7.8
Harden +6.5
Curry +6.5
Dame +4.7

CJ +1.4
Simons -1.5

career net rating:

Harden +11
Curry +10
Dame +6
Doncic +5

CJ -1
Simons -10


Simons

yeah, there are other guards who are bad at defense, but they are so elite at offense that they dramatically off-set their defensive weaknesses

Ant is not in the same zip-code on offense as those other guys, The reality is Ant is a net negative on a basketball floor. He doesn't do offense well enough to off-set his terrible defense. CJ has been good enough on offense to offset his defense; it helps that as bad as CJ has been on defense, he has still been better than Ant

 

Look... Let's not let the facts get in the way of my point.

Sub in Ant for CJ

 

Simons averaged those 5.5 assists because he was basically the sole focus of other teams defenses most the time. Leaving more wide open looks.

 

The idea that we NEED Ant for his outside shooting is just nuts. We don't NEED anyone for anything right now. We just NEED to be able to evaluate and develop the talent that we have and accumulate more assets, in the form of draft picks and prospects. Both draft picks and prospects can be used later to consolidate and acquire talent that fits needs that haven't materialized from used draft picks and current or acquired players. However that's what we do when we think winning has become the immediate priority over development and asset acquisition.

We are in a rebuild and I'm not saying that none of the players on the roster will be a part of future playoff wins, I'm saying how that plays out doesn't need to be our current concern. Again, I've said this a lot but win now players in theory should be worth more to teams who are trying to win big now and future assets (prospects not ready to contribute to wins now and draft picks) should have more value to us.

Ant isn't too old to be with our team long term so there is no rush but if any team who views themselves as close to contending needs a perimeter offensive weapon then we would likely be able to get more value from them for Ant in terms of what we need as a rebuilding team than Ant currently provides to the rebuild.

 

I don't think anybody in the league would trade Lauri Markkanen for Ant.

He's bigger, scores just as well, is a far better rebounder, and a far better defender.

That's just unrealistic.

 

The difference between Dame, CJ and Ant's D is effort. CJ expended energy trying to defend. I can't say the same thing for the other two. If you could get the truth out of Dame, I'd bet he'd tell you he conserved energy on D so he could give max effort scoring. It's easier to accept when you're at that level offensively. But, Ant isn't at Dame's level. It makes Ant's efficiency numbers look much worse.
Scoot is already a better defender than the other three regardless of what the stats look like. In a couple years, with good coaching, Scoot will be a good defender. Probably above average because of his physical makeup and his mentality. I think he knows he can't just outscore his opponent. I don't think the other three cared if they got scored on.
If Ant is the plan as a long term starter, it would almost qualify Cronin as insane. Why would a terrible defensive, ball dominate, shoot first (and second) PG have more success now when it didn't work before, twice?
The best thing a coach could do for the team (and for Ant) is run more set plays to make Ant pass the ball and hold him responsible for his defensive lapses. Something Stotts never did. Plus, teams just don't run offensive sets anymore. My college team had 90+ calls in about 10 different sets to get a specific look for our personnel. I guarantee no NBA teams do. It's all pick and roll and it's often the guy that gets the defensive rebound since most teams don't immediately get the ball to their PG after a miss.
I remember the Detroit game at home toward the end of the year where the offense for most of the second half and OT was iso to Grant on the right side. They didn't even switch up what side he was on! It was hard to watch. Meanwhile, Det was making enough adjustments on both ends to win a game they had no business winning.

 

I don't know how much stock to put in those defensive stats. Offensive metrics are explicit, you know who shot the ball, but you can't look at stats and know who is responsible for an opposing player scoring.

 

Jokic and Doncic are excellent defenders.

 

So wrong on that. Markkanen is a a far better defender? Lmao

better rebounder ya but 1. His rebounding isn’t that impressive and 2.he should be a better rebounded being 7foot and playing PF/SF.

That’s like me saying Ant is a better passer, well no shit.

Go look at Markkanen stats prior to joining the Jazz, his number aren’t mind blowing and his stats for the last two seasons aren’t either.

 

I really hope you’re trying to be sarcastic

 

Don’t put anything into those kinds stats.

It’s pointless, and those stats are so faulty, depending on who is on the court with them at the same time can alert those stats overall.

 

None of that matters in this comparison. He's 7 ft tall. He's far more valuable than Ant.

There is not a single team in the league who would make that trade straight up. You're vastly overvaluing Ant.

 

none of that matters? I just debunked what you said and now it doesn’t matter?

I guess Bo-Bo is someone everyone in the league is dying to get on their roster huh?

it doesn’t have to be Ant for him straight up, I never said that.

Jazz are shopping him. Did you see what Hawks got back in return for Murray the other day?

To say no team would make that trade straight up regardless is silly. Bad trades happen all the time and if you swapped both of them, it would hardly be a bad deal from what else we have seen before.

 

No. In this comparison none of that matters because Lauri Markkanen is far more productive than Ant.

And if you're not talking straight up then I don't know what to say. We don't need Lauri Markkanen either. He'll only hurt our chances at getting a better pick the next couple years even more than Ant will, because he's better. I definitely wouldn't want to throw more assets in to make that trade.

We really need to send Ant out for draft capital because nobody who has good young players is going to want to trade them for Ant. I guess we could get lucky and someone gifts us something but I certainly wouldn't count on it.

I'd think the Lakers would be interested in Ant...

 

We need outside shooting and better scoring, period

You want to know how many points per game we averaged as a team last season without Ant? In the 36 games Ant didnt play, we averaged 102.4 PPG as a team. That's good for LAST in the NBA. With Ant we scored 109.4 PPG.

If you want Scoot to actually thrive, its best to surround him with shooters. Scoot wont be able to excel as much if teams are just sagging off him daring him to shoot 3's. He won't be able to do what he does best at the moment which is use his speed and athleticism to blow by defenders.