I am not anti-USA, just anti USA arming the world and starting wars and overthrowing governments. I'll say it again. To make peace, you need to talk to your enemy. There are two sides and both need to be heard and taken into account. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/explainer-why-did-russia-invade-ukraine EXPLAINER: Why Did Russia Invade Ukraine? Experts say the cause of the military conflict can be tied to a complicated history, Russia’s tensions with NATO and the ambitions of Vladimir Putin. Ukraine’s ambitions to align itself more with Western countries – including its publicly stated interest in joining NATO, which itself was founded at least in part to deter Soviet expansion – has been met with aggression from Russia, the council notes. ... A principal demand of Russia is to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO, a military alliance between 29 European countries and two North American countries dedicated to preserving peace and security in the North Atlantic area. Ukraine is one of just a few countries in Eastern Europe that aren’t members of the alliance. The Kremlin in general views NATO expansion as a “fundamental concern,” according to a translated readout of a Jan. 28, 2022, call between Putin and French President Emmanuel Macron. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/stone-interviews-putin-says-asked-russia-joining-nato In Stone interviews, Putin says he once asked about Russia joining NATO MOSCOW — Russian President Vladimir Putin says that early on in his tenure he floated the idea of Russia joining NATO. In a series of interviews with American film director Oliver Stone, Putin said he inquired about Russia joining the alliance when then U.S. President Bill Clinton visited Moscow in 2000. “During the meeting I said: ‘Let’s consider an option that Russia might join NATO,'” Putin recalled. “Clinton said ‘Why not?’ But the U.S. delegation got very nervous.” Putin had said in an interview several months before Clinton’s June 2000 visit that he wasn’t opposed to Russia joining the alliance, but his comment to Stone was the first public indication of his raising the issue. In the segments, Putin portrays Russia under his leadership as seeking to improve ties, but frustrated by Washington’s “imperialist mentality.” Despite Putin’s onetime interest in joining NATO, in the interviews he criticized the alliance for expanding eastward to Russia’s borders. As I wrote earlier, inviting Russia to join NATO would definitely cool things down between Russia and the west. Why? Because we would be subject to article 5 to defend them just as we would be to defend any other member. And they would be partners, not the reason to have a NATO to protect against Russian actions. Also, when our presidents want to go to war, like to destroy Libya, they don't go through the UN because they'd get vetoed or otherwise blowback. Instead, they go through NATO where the US can bully the members (who else will defend them in case of war?).
My understanding is that Russia wanted the eastern land bridge to the Black Sea, the ports and the rich farmlands in eastern Ukraine. Russia is sort of landlocked and eastern Ukraine is the gateway to the Meditteranean Sea via the Black Sea
They got a base in the Black Sea via a deal with Ukraine. The whole Ukraine/Russia thing is a very old relationship. Like 1,000+ years old. For hundreds of years, Ukraine was part of Russia. There are MANY Russian/Russian speaking people in Ukraine - as you would expect. They voted in Crimea to secede from Ukraine and join Russia (because so many people are Russians there). The vote was questionable, though it was held. Russia did not do a full scale invasion to take land from people who didn't want them. Nuts to people who call me MAGA. I wouldn't vote for Trump, ever. I didn't either time he ran earlier. I like people, even with brown skin. I favor an open border with an Ellis Island style immigration system. I am pro choice (for abortion for whatever reason a woman chooses). I am not at all opposed to trans people - in fact I hired many and supported them by holding open their jobs while they had "the surgery." I don't like republicans. I just don't like democrats either. I think republicans are morons and democrats are evil. I'm for non-interventionist foreign policy. I wasn't kidding when I said I'd vote for RFJ Jr. He's not a republican. He's non interventionist. He has some weird beliefs, but don't we all?
Putin has been pres or prime minister of Russia, since 1999. 1999, Putin invaded Chechen?, installing a pro Russia govt. 2008, Putin invaded Georgia. Part of Georgia is still under Russia's control. 2014, Putin invades Crimea. 2015, Putin sent a large force to Syria to fight in their cival war. 2022, Putin invades Ukraine. Also, Putin has been very active in the 2018 central Africa cival wars, sending troops and supplies And very active in the 2021 Mali war.
And the US? Since 1999: Iraq (multiple times), Somalia, Afghanistan (twice), Pakistan, Libya, Sudan, Yemen, Syria, and recently Israel. Those are direct involvement (us flying planes, dropping bombs, drones, invasion, and so on). Our weapons are used throughout the world where there are wars going on. Places like Ukraine, Israel, Afghanistan (we armed Bin Laden against Russian invasion in the 1980s)... If you want to go back a little, you have Lebanon, Vietnam, Korea, and a whole lot of CIA overthrowing of governments in our hemisphere.
Not the same. Putin fights wars to take control of more land. The only land the USA takes, is just enough to bury our dead. Heck, we no longer even take that land.
I don't know. you keep saying you are not pro-russian but you keep putting out stuff that echoes russian propaganda. Just a reminder. USA did not arm Ukraine except with a few broken down hummers until a few days before russia's second invasion in 2022 when they gave out some shoulder fired anti tank guns. You kind of imply that USA arms countries that would be threatening to russia. Then you quote Putin, a man who was trained in the KGB to lie and is a proven liar. Do you dispute that he is a proven liar and assassin? That's just weird for me. As for Crimea. I was there. No one disputes that members of the Crimean parliament were rounded up at gun point and forced to ask for a referendum. The people of Crimea did not ask for a referendum. Maybe they voted for it, who knows? I know that I and lot of other people were already on trains heading into mainland Ukraine because we understood the violent and sadistic nature of the people taking over. The people who were left also understood the nature of the people supervising the referendum. They did not trust that their votes would be secret. Let me ask you something else, If Mexican troops took over parts of Texas that contained majority of people of Mexican descent, and then held a referendum to secede from USA, would you think that would be OK? I gotta ask you one more thing. Did you vociferously oppose USA entry into Viet Nam, Iraq or Afghanaistan at that time? I don't enjoy this back and forth in a forum that is barely read. I spend my time at other places sharing information with people from all over the world who want to understand this conflict and want to help Ukraine.. I only responded because I think somebody like you might have some credibility with some readers here. I feel like you post mis-leading information and I have responded to that. If you can find any misleading information that I have posted in my many posts here, I would like to see that.
We invaded and kept troops in two countries for over a decade. "Nation building." Install friendly governments to ourselves (Shah of Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan).
Just to follow up, so I can be done with this. I am not going to respond to your posts any longer, nor will I read them. I hope people have sense enough to see the information in them is not of use. You are welcome to have the last word.
There is talk about Texas and California seceding, as well as part of Oregon. I was near age to be drafted when Vietnam war ended. I was very much opposed, and likely would have gone to Canada rather than go kill people who have done me no wrong.
I think many in the US are really ignorant of Russian history. Both how bad the early Soviet Union was, and how far it came under Mikhail Gorbachev. They really wanted to start a new era of cooperation with the West, and instead the west kept expanding NATO, something many foreign policy experts have been lamenting for decades. They also use Russia as this default boogyman. Tulsi Gabbard critical of your bombing of Libya "SHE'S A RUSSIAN AGENT!" Rulers always want to manipulate the population to support the wars they want to fight, and it's not for the benefit of the people.
The US making peace treaties with other nations is none of Russia's business. There was no expansion from 1982-1999, until Putin came into power and started being aggressive and forcing the countries in Russia's neighborhood to consider what Russia may do to them if they don't join NATO. NATO expansion since Putin took power has been a direct result of Russian aggression toward its neighbors.
Yes the same. We took Texas and California from Mexico. And much of the land in the US from native amaricans. Our whole history is full of awful things.
Absolutely correct that American history full of awful things. That does not excuse Putin doing awful things.
Do as I say, not as I do? Again, if we want peace we have to talk to our adversaries and listen to their POV. A peace may require some pain on both parties' parts - unless there's an all out war, which is more possible now than any time since the Cuban Missile Crisis, you cannot demand complete surrender from the opposition.
Denny, I agree with a lot of what you say. I am older than you. And I hated every second we had kids in Vietnam. I lost a lot of friends in that war. I love being a Marine, but, hated fighting a useless war micro-managed by politicians. Everyone dies in a war. Even the ones that survive have a part of them that dies. I do not like how Biden is micro-managing this war. But helping Ukraine fight Putin is sadly, the best option.
That was 180 years ago. The world is a bit different now than it was back then. The US is different. Nothing the US did makes anything the Russians are doing okay. Russia has treaties with Ukraine and so does the US. The US and Ukraine are upholding our end of the agreements while Russia is violating theirs. The only thing the US is doing wrong in this situation is not giving Ukraine more weapons and support. And I think there are good reasons for that. Even if I don't agree with them 100%.
Climate change is upending NATO's operations https://www.axios.com/2024/07/15/climate-change-nato-threat-cyber?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-us
If you think joining NATO is making a "peace treaty", you have much to learn. Also the course for expansion of NATO pre-dates 1999 and Vladimir Putin. Poland, Hungary and Czech Republic did join in 1999 (before Putin came into power), but the process started long before. I notice you bring Putin into almost every conversation. It seems in your mind, Russia isn't really a country, it's all about boogy-man Putin. The tension over this was already at play in the mid 90s. https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-.../2021-11-24/nato-expansion-budapest-blow-1994
Putin, Putin, Putin, Putin....the lot of you are obsessed with Putin. Because the propaganda campaign has been waged against you with Putin as the boogyman. There are several morons in NATO leadership that openly talk about ousting Putin, as though that would change anything. As though Russia would allow it's government to be over-thrown by military force without dropping nukes. Bat. Shit. Insane. If you people don't wake the fuck up you'll keep voting for people that will put us on a course for annihilation.
