It's a popularity contest. Just like all star games. Just like all league teams. I think the fact that Kobe played more recently than a lot of guys gives him a leg up and I think the fact that he played in LA for 20 years gives him a leg up. I don't argue with his inclusion into the top 10. But the more I think about it the more I put him in the 25-ish range.
OK, that is fine. I guess I am missing out on the criteria that people have for being top 10 and where Kobe Bryant misses the mark. Winning, awards, statistics, longevity, impact, MVP, Finals MVP, where is he lacking?
There are other guys who meet those qualifications as well. He missed a lot of shots. Raped a girl. And he was an asshole teammate. I think a lot of his awards were based on popularity and the fact that he had really good teammates with him as well as great coaching. And he was the recipient of some very beneficial Laker bias from the refs that allowed him to get to the finals and get those finals MVPs. Again, he was an incredible player. He had incredible focus. And incredible skills and desire. I just wouldn't put him top 10. And once you don't put him top 10 based on his accomplishments as a Laker, then you have to start looking at other guys who don't even really get considered because they didn't get that benefit.
100%. I'd start a team with Larry Bird over Kobe every single time. Same with Hakeem and Big O (both over Kobe). *Edit* I'd probably take Stockton over Kobe as well. He was every bit as motivated as Kobe and far tougher and less of a prima donna. Even if Stockton is also an asshole. And he absolutely is.
Jordan also missed a lot of shots and was an asshole teammate. I guess Kobe wasn't that big of an asshole to some teammates though eh? Shaq and Gasol love the guy and reflect back on their time fondly even if they had scuffles.
Jordan has so much over Kobe that the assholeness doesn't even come into play, IMO. *Edit* These guys (MJ and Kobe) aren't even in the same conversation, IMO. Jordan, Wilt, Shaq, Kareem Then everyone else. Not necessarily in that order, but everyone else is far, far below these guys. *Edit 2*And Jordan, Wilt, and Kareem are above. Oh shoot. Forgot Bill Russell. He's up with Kareem and Wilt. MJ is the GOAT.
I think longevity is the only argument against Bird. At peak, in prime, I think it's Bird, no contest.
I would put Bird, Magic, and Lebron all in the same group. Also, Jokic is pushing his way into that group, as will Doncic. Curry is top-20, and I think Giannis probably is too, but both a tier below those Balkan behemoths.
Yeah, that all seems pretty legit... I could be persuaded to rank them like that. I do think Stockton is probably in there somewhere... And I'm sure I'm missing some others.
c'mon man Kyrie was able to play with Lebron, Kevin Love, Jaysun Tatum., Jalen Brown, James Harden & Kevin Durant....all before he was 30. Dame never got to play with any players like that; nor did he ever get to draft off of the wakes those superstars created, or play against single coverage like Kyrie often did. And he still was able to post better numbers, pretty much across the board
I see two on the list above with an argument. Of course Steph has a huge argument... I know what you mean though. I was thinking of the point guards who are being left out. Bob Cousy, Nate Archibald, Nash, Payton, Kidd, Chris Paul, Derrick Rose... I'm not sure how many I'd put ahead of Stockton, though. Tough to know with the limited amount of video we have on some of those guys... As far as just being a badass Calvin Murphy was beating the hell out of posts for like a decade... I have Stockton solidly top 20 though. So freaking tough...
The Goat tier diagram. Many players that actually played against Kobe would disagree with you on that. Kobe was on a different level. No I'm not a Laker fan and no I really never was a Kobe fan other than you had to respect his play. I also had issue with Kobe for his off court problems.
