Ayton at the 4 seems absolutely crazy to me. I do think that he can do the things a modern 5 has to do defensively so no one could play him off the court with their normal starting lineup. I think you guys are being hard on his defense, I know he isn't a rim protector but I think he controls the paint well... that's hard to quantify because our perimeter defenders are so poor outside of Jerami when he decides to be engaged and Tou who is a quality defender pretty much all of the time. I will say it again, I think Deandre is a starting level C in this league and not only some lame excuse for a starter but a starter who is the third best player on a Western Conference champion that wins two games in the Finals.
This is both brilliant and nonsensical. It does so much and is also disastrous. Super helpful, yet a complete waste. I love this
great, he averaged 14 & 10 and maybe, was the 4th best player on a team that rode a perfect storm into the finals and he averaged 17 & 11 on a team that won 21 games
I'd like to see Deni at PG. He's got the athletic ability, ball handling/passing ability to play the point.
Why would he be worse than LaMarcus Aldridge at the 4? They both like to take the little jump shot. LA wasn't more athletic than DA.
Obviously Booker, Bridges, CP3 were the leaders of that finals team. Cam Johnson shot 45% 3s on that team finals team, and a 30 year old Jae Crowder played very well on both ends while shooting 38%. Ayton was the 6th most impactful Suns player. The Suns didn't offer him a contract after those finals, so he had to play on an expiring deal. If they were impressed with his contributions as a 22 year old they would've eagerly locked him up.
LMA was more mobile, a much better defender, a far better shooter, and played in an era with far more lumbering PF's.
Hassan Whiteside career high averages were 17.0 points, 14.1 rebounds and 3.7 blocks. He was much more statistically impactful than Ayton. Both of them are poor centers, the book was out on Whiteside during his Portland tenure just as the league is today aware of the hollow impact of Ayton offensive stats. After Whiteside max contract in Portland he signed a minimum deal in Sacramento, played 36 games, one final season in Utah then was out of the league.
in 2013-14, when Aldridge and Dame led the Blazers past Houston in the 1st round of the playoffs, PF's in the NBA were guys like Blake Griffin, Dirk Nowitski, AD, Kevin Love, David Lee, Paul Milsap, Zach Randolph, Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, Serge Ibaka. Maybe Ayton could guard a few of those guys. But Aldridge was more mobile and a much better defender. there just aren't many PF's like those guys left in the NBA. I posted a list of the current PF's in the west earlier in this thread, and it sure looks a lot different than the PF's 10-11 years ago. It essentially a list of mostly traditional SF's that play PF in the NBA these days
Were teams making errors then, in playing PFs like that all this time? What evidence do we have that those types of PFs are inferior to the types playing today?
He can defend the perimeter as well. If the Blazers get another good front court defender to put along side Camara and Clingan, then you have Deni playing guard, we'd have the best defense in the league defense. (though the offense would probably not be so good).
The embrace of the 3 ball has changed the game and the players who take the court... look at the teams who've been winning. Being able to shoot and defend the 3 has become extremely important. Spreading the D out with shooters around the perimeter exposes Lumbering Bigs to be targeted in high pick and rolls to get them switched off onto quick ball handling guards/wings who can get clean looks or kick to those shooters if the D collapses. If the Blazers were to luck into Flagg, I'd expect we'd see him paired a lot with Deni and Camara in the front court going without a traditional Big but able to switch most everything. STOMP
All the changes in PF are because 3>2 However the discussion was Ayton guarding PF - that he is unable to effectively do so with today's PFs. Doesn't matter if the prior years PF were inferior or superior to todays PF. The fact is those are the PF on opposing teams today that Ayton would need to guard.
I don't really care who is labelled PF vs SF vs SG - its more how the skill sets fit. If Camara and Deni are playing together it's probably ideal to have the 3rd swing player with some dribbling and penetration skills. Camara isn't very good at that and while Deni is fine I don't think you want just him and a PG doing all of that ball handling. Ideally that 3rd swing would be good at 3pt shooting and defense too. That archetype is likely a SG although some SF would work. Flagg would be ideal of course. Sharpe, Banton or Rupert would probably be the best on the current roster. I wouldn't use a forward like Walker as the Deni/Camara duo with him wouldn't have enough ball handling/penetration.
I'm not saying I think it would be good, but I'd like to see that experiment. People talk about what he wouldn't bring to the 4 but ignore what he would bring to the 4. If he could contain opposing 4s to launching up 3s, that would be a win in most cases, because most 4s don't shoot 3s at a clip that approaches the league average TS%. (which would be 38% from 3)
