<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 1 2006, 08:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Obviously you didnt understand my point. The Jets have numerous holes to fill.Not to mention, even if he signed for 6 years, what a waste of cap space.</div>You're missing our point though.The Jets have numerous holes to fill.Wide Reciever is one of them.Why not fill the hole with a quality player when you have the chance?PS: DE, CB, and QB are not needs. Kellen Clemens is the future at QB and we have quality Cornerbacks and Defensive Ends in Andre Dyson, Justin Miller, David Barrett, and Shaun Ellis and Dewayne Robertson/Kimo von Oelhoffen have looked very solid splitting time at DE and Nose Tackle.
Wide reciever isnt as big of a whole as other positions though. Coles and McCareins are not great, but still, Coles and Branch isnt that much better.How do you know Kellen Clemens is the future at QB? I saw plenty of Clemens, he went to Oregon, he really didnt impress me. What have you seen/heard about that makes him the QB of the future??Andre Dyson is a solid CB. But Justin Miller? David Barrett?And if you expect Robertson and Oelhoffen to start/split time... Thats obviously why the Jets are not a playoff team. Those players are backups on most teams. Although they may be "solid", they arent the caliber of players that you need to create a better team. Now, I'm not saying that a rookie that is drafted in the 2nd round could be better than any of these players immediately. Obviously, it takes time. But later, two, three, four, years later, the Jets will be much better off with the 2nd rounder than Branch.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Sep 1 2006, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 1 2006, 08:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Obviously you didnt understand my point. The Jets have numerous holes to fill.Not to mention, even if he signed for 6 years, what a waste of cap space.</div>You're missing our point though.The Jets have numerous holes to fill.Wide Reciever is one of them.Why not fill the hole with a quality player when you have the chance?PS: DE, CB, and QB are not needs. Kellen Clemens is the future at QB and we have quality Cornerbacks and Defensive Ends in Andre Dyson, Justin Miller, David Barrett, and Shaun Ellis and Dewayne Robertson/Kimo von Oelhoffen have looked very solid splitting time at DE and Nose Tackle.</div>Needs:1. A true NT.2. A full time RB.3. A 2nd WR.4. A legit RT.5. A pass rushing OLB.6. A Pass Catching TE.Why not use our 2nd round pick on a WR?WR's usually take 3 years to settle in. So why not spend a 2nd rounder on a 2nd round value who has already settled in and is a pretty sure thing.
Why are you guys hating on McCareins and Cotchery? McCareins: 43 catches, 713 yardsCotchery: 19 catches, 251 yards (obviously capable of more than those numbers)Coles had 30 more catches but only like a 100 yards more... I dont see what the big difference is between the two, and what Branch has that McCareins and Cotchery dont.What exactly about Branch will make the Jets a better team?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 2 2006, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And if you expect Robertson and Oelhoffen to start/split time...</div> :LMAO: Those 2 are in two different positions. Von Oelhoffen is a DE and Robertson is a crappy NT.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ Sep 1 2006, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 2 2006, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And if you expect Robertson and Oelhoffen to start/split time...</div> :LMAO: Those 2 are in two different positions. Von Oelhoffen is a DE and Robertson is a crappy NT.</div>But Robertson is an ideal 3-4 DE. Power, quickness, and a good run stopper.Which is why we need a true NT.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ Sep 1 2006, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 2 2006, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And if you expect Robertson and Oelhoffen to start/split time...</div> :LMAO: Those 2 are in two different positions. Von Oelhoffen is a DE and Robertson is a crappy NT.</div>... You need to stop trying.Because obviously you dont know what you are talking about.Do you know what defense the Jets are going to primarily use?The 3-4. Robertson is NOT the DT that the Jets need. Robertson probably should be playing DE.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Sep 1 2006, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ Sep 1 2006, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 2 2006, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And if you expect Robertson and Oelhoffen to start/split time...</div> :LMAO: Those 2 are in two different positions. Von Oelhoffen is a DE and Robertson is a crappy NT.</div>But Robertson is an ideal 3-4 DE. Power, quickness, and a good run stopper.Which is why we need a true NT.</div>Damn. You beat me to it...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 1 2006, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ Sep 1 2006, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 2 2006, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And if you expect Robertson and Oelhoffen to start/split time...</div> :LMAO: Those 2 are in two different positions. Von Oelhoffen is a DE and Robertson is a crappy NT.</div>... You need to stop trying.Because obviously you dont know what you are talking about.Do you know what defense the Jets are going to primarily use?The 3-4. Robertson is NOT the DT that the Jets need. Robertson probably should be playing DE.</div>The thing is, most people don't know this, Shaun Ellis is a former DT for us two. Yup, he learned the same position that Robertson held last year. The coaching staff wised up and realized that he was better at his college position of DE. Robertson did play DT in college, but he is a lot like Ellis in his skills and build. Shifting him to 3-4 DE would also be for the better, but we just can't do that without a NT. Kimo at DE and Robertson at NT is better than Robertson at DE and Pouha at NT.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 1 2006, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wide reciever isnt as big of a whole as other positions though. Coles and McCareins are not great, but still, Coles and Branch isnt that much better.How do you know Kellen Clemens is the future at QB? I saw plenty of Clemens, he went to Oregon, he really didnt impress me. What have you seen/heard about that makes him the QB of the future??Andre Dyson is a solid CB. But Justin Miller? David Barrett?And if you expect Robertson and Oelhoffen to start/split time... Thats obviously why the Jets are not a playoff team. Those players are backups on most teams. Although they may be "solid", they arent the caliber of players that you need to create a better team. Now, I'm not saying that a rookie that is drafted in the 2nd round could be better than any of these players immediately. Obviously, it takes time. But later, two, three, four, years later, the Jets will be much better off with the 2nd rounder than Branch.</div>Dude, just quit while you're behind. You are way off on this one.First of all, Justin McCareins is flat-out terrible and isnt even a starter for the New York Jets anymore, he lost his starting job to Jerricho Cotchery because he was so bad. WR is among our Top 3 needs along with Nose Tackle, and Runningback. Deion Branch would be a huge upgrade over either of them. Adding a Top 20 WR to our offense definately wouldnt hurt. Second of all, Kellen Clemens has been argueably our best Quarterback this preseason. He would likely have been a First Round pick in this years past if he didnt get injured over the later course of the College Football season. He will be the Starting Quarterback of the Jets quite possibly as soon as the second half of this season. Kimo von Oelhoffen was only good enough to start for the Pittsburgh Steelers last season. (You know, that team that won the Super Bowl). The guy is a perfect fit for the 3-4 Defense and has good so far in preseason.Dewayne Robertson looked great last week from the Defensive End spot. His problem in the past I believe is a mis-usage of his talent by Herman Edwards. He was always more of the pass-rusher but forced to play on the inside because of the Warren Sapp comparison. Fact of the matter though is that he cannot Command the Double Team close to as well as Sapp could and He belongs more as a big Defensive End with Pass-Rushing Ability. If the Jets could play him mainly as a Defensive End in the 3-4 Defense I would think that he is poised for that Breakout season. Im not the least bit concerned about either of them playing Defensive End for us as they've both looked good there. My concern on the Defensive Line belongs in terms of depth, which hopefully we addressed with our recent trading spree in C.J. Mosley and Bobby Hamilton, and the Nose Tackle Position. We really dont have a true Nose Tackle and because of that have been forced to tryout both von Oelhoffen and Robertson there. We need to find that big bodied person who can command the double team in there, but that has nothing to do with our Defensive End position. And as for our Secondary, David Barrett and Justin Miller were just fine playing there last season, and now Justin Miller is only more experianced and David Barrett is fully healthy. The needs on the Jets were perfectly listed by Jon_Vilma above me. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Needs:1. A true NT. - We need a big bodied Nose Tackle who can hold his own in the trenches. Right now we have a mix of Kimo von Oelhoffen and Dewayne Robertson playing that position (When they arent at DE) and they just arent powerful enough to be able to command the Double Team and sometimes Triple Team consistantly.2. A full time RB. - - Runningback by Committee is nice, but unless Derrick Blaylock or Kevan Barlow emerge as a capable guy who can handle the ball 300 times, expect the Jets to spend their first round pick on a Michael Bush. 3. A 2nd WR. - - Justin McCareins blows, Jerricho Cotchery is probably better suited for a slot role, and Brad Smith isnt ready. We need a WR capable of starting game in and out for a while. 4. A legit RT. - So far Anthony Clement has been solid, but you could always use an upgrade. (I flip-flopped the bottom two)5. A Pass Catching TE. - More of a Luxury then a necessity at this point, Chris Baker is solid, but you could always use an upgrade6. A pass rushing OLB. - Unlike Vilma, im not positive that this is really a need, mainly because Bryan Thomas has looked great in Training Camp and he could possibly be the answer that we are looking for here. We shall know before the end of the season if he is capable of being the answer for that or not though.</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 1 2006, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why are you guys hating on McCareins and Cotchery? McCareins: 43 catches, 713 yardsCotchery: 19 catches, 251 yards (obviously capable of more than those numbers)Coles had 30 more catches but only like a 100 yards more... I dont see what the big difference is between the two, and what Branch has that McCareins and Cotchery dont.What exactly about Branch will make the Jets a better team?</div>Stats dont tell the story with McCareins.He has very poor hands and cannot hold onto the ball and is a poor route runner. Not to mention he is just prone to the boneheaded mistakes, this being the reason why he lost his starting job to Cotchery.Cotchery is alright and has potential, but ideally he should be a #3 reciever.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ Sep 1 2006, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 2 2006, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And if you expect Robertson and Oelhoffen to start/split time...</div> :LMAO: Those 2 are in two different positions. Von Oelhoffen is a DE and Robertson is a crappy NT.</div>They have both actually played both positions in the preseason, both looking much better at Defensive End then they have at Nose Tackle. The problem is, is that we need one of them to step it up and play Nose Tackle though, especially after our NT depth got killed in injuries to Sione Pouha and Tui.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 1 2006, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Do you know what defense the Jets are going to primarily use?The 3-4. Robertson is NOT the DT that the Jets need. Robertson probably should be playing DE.</div>Just nitpicking, but the Jets dont have a 'primary' defense.Expect them to play just about anything imagineable about equally. 4-3, 3-4, 5-2, 4-4, it doesnt matter. Whatever puts us in the best position to stop the opponent is going to be what we will use.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Sep 2 2006, 01:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They have both actually played both positions in the preseason, both looking much better at Defensive End then they have at Nose Tackle. The problem is, is that we need one of them to step it up and play Nose Tackle though, especially after our NT depth got killed in injuries to Sione Pouha and Tui.</div>My point being that Oelhoffen is a DE first, then if needed a DT. If anything Oelhoffen won't be replaced by Robertson at all this season.
I cant believe that you are ok with having to start Barrett, Dyson, and Miller in the secondary... Those guys are going to get burned deep regularly, if the Jets are going to look to the playoffs, they need upgrades at the CB position. The only decent corner is Dyson, and I wouldnt trust him to be a starter, I would rather have him be the nickel cornerback.The stats are misleading from last year. The only reason why the Jets gave up 172 passing yards per game was not because the secondary was good. The reason was because the Jets were 29th in run defense. There is a reason why the top 4 teams in pass defense are among the worst in run defense.That secondary will not get you anywhere. I dont know where you are getting the perception that Miller and Barrett are good, but I guarantee that the Jets will not get in the playoffs with those 2 in the starting lineup.I also cannot believe that you are ok with your defensive line... Are you kidding me? 29th in the league last year in run defense?!?! Your linebackers were certainly not the cause of that. And you like Oelhoffen?? He blows dude. Sure, he started for the Steelers, but that doesnt mean he was good. Decent players play roles in good defenses. Oelhoffen at best is a role player who will have 30-40 tackle. Certianly upgradeable.Now that I am looking at the Jets more closely, I have a hard time believing they will win more than 6, 7 games. Penninton isnt the answer at QB, and you cant expect Clemens to be successful, especially this year. ( I dont like Clemens, I saw him live a couple times, and he doesnt seem to have the accuracy. He's a gunslinger who will take chances down the field and obviously succeeded in the spread-offense that Oregon uses. Clemens reminds me of Harrington a bit ). The Jets have problems at RB, RT, RG. And thats just offense.Defensively, Mangini is going to have to work some magic with that d-line. They need to be able to hold teams to under 115 yards per game. Thats an improvement of over 20 yards per game, thats going to be tough. The secondary has got to show that they can hold its own. Its amazing, the Jets gave up 41% of 3rd down conversions and 82% of 4th down conversions. 14/17 on 4th downs. Thats horrible... That shows lack of defense both rushing and passing. I still dont think WR is that big of a deal. Good WRs should be considered a luxury, not a need. Many teams succeed without great WRs; KC, San Diego, New England, Philly (before T.O.), Chicago, Atlanta, Jacksonville...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 2 2006, 03:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I cant believe that you are ok with having to start Barrett, Dyson, and Miller in the secondary... Those guys are going to get burned deep regularly, if the Jets are going to look to the playoffs, they need upgrades at the CB position. The only decent corner is Dyson, and I wouldnt trust him to be a starter, I would rather have him be the nickel cornerback.The stats are misleading from last year. The only reason why the Jets gave up 172 passing yards per game was not because the secondary was good. The reason was because the Jets were 29th in run defense. There is a reason why the top 4 teams in pass defense are among the worst in run defense.That secondary will not get you anywhere. I dont know where you are getting the perception that Miller and Barrett are good, but I guarantee that the Jets will not get in the playoffs with those 2 in the starting lineup.I also cannot believe that you are ok with your defensive line... Are you kidding me? 29th in the league last year in run defense?!?! Your linebackers were certainly not the cause of that. And you like Oelhoffen?? He blows dude. Sure, he started for the Steelers, but that doesnt mean he was good. Decent players play roles in good defenses. Oelhoffen at best is a role player who will have 30-40 tackle. Certianly upgradeable.Now that I am looking at the Jets more closely, I have a hard time believing they will win more than 6, 7 games. Penninton isnt the answer at QB, and you cant expect Clemens to be successful, especially this year. ( I dont like Clemens, I saw him live a couple times, and he doesnt seem to have the accuracy. He's a gunslinger who will take chances down the field and obviously succeeded in the spread-offense that Oregon uses. Clemens reminds me of Harrington a bit ). The Jets have problems at RB, RT, RG. And thats just offense.I still dont think WR is that big of a deal. Good WRs should be considered a luxury, not a need. Many teams succeed without great WRs; KC, San Diego, New England, Philly (before T.O.), Chicago, Atlanta, Jacksonville...</div>LMAO. I'd like you to name 10 WR's that can burn Justin Miller. Miller and Dyson are speedy guys, and Barrett is only a coverage corner. A team doesn't give up only 172 YPG in the passing department for nothing. You can't sit here and tell me each team was a successful team last year with their own running games. I'm sorry, but the run opens up the pass, and once you utilize the run, the pass is where you go. Ok, I give you credit that the defensive line isn't great anymore, especially with the departure of John Abraham, but that doesn't mean the defense was horrid. You make it seem like they were among the worst in football, yet forgetting they had too many injuries last year to make that a complete statement. Barton was out and he plays a major part in the LB core, and Pennington was out all year along with every other dumbass QB the Jets had. Now wonder to yourself what the offense has to do with the defense. The offense couldn't move the ball and either turned it over quick, or were forced on occasion for a 3 and out. That means the defense had so little time to rest, that it didn't matter if the defense was amazing, there was just no fresh legs to help. There is no problem with von Oelhoffen, so get that out of your system. Not one person here said he was great, they just said he does his job, and that's all that counts.As for Kellen Clemens, you can't sit here and tell me he is another Joey Harrington. Regardless if he does good or not, he was not projected first round, his expectations weren't all hyped like these idiots VY and Leinart. He was a 2nd round pick, and quite frankly a steal in the 2nd round. You haven't seen him step foot on the field yet with a full starting lineup, so don't be too quick to judge.Now as for the WR area you mention. WR's are dependant upon the type of offense you run. And as for the Jets, they need all the WR's they can get with this offense, especially without a Curtis Martin this year and a crippled and rebuilding offensive line. The Jets need construction through the entire offense, but they can't just go shopping for everyone in one or two years. Rebuilding takes time, which you will find out after the loss of Jimmy Smith. Then you will see what a WR can do to affect a team's performace.
So basically you are saying that the Jets passing defense is good. Just like the Packers, Saints, and Browns passing defenses are better than the Bears. :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: :LMAO: The Jets, Packers, Saints, Browns are the top 4 passing defenses ranked by average passing yards per game because their run defense sucks even more. If you can run for 136 yards per game (Jets average allowed), you dont need to throw the ball. The Jets defense was one of the worst in the league. Period. And still is. Dont give me shit about how a offense that sucks ass hurts the defense. The Bears offense was just as bad as the Jets. And their defense still owned. That is some shit you are making up.Justin Miller blows. Here are 10 WRs that can blow past him. Randy Moss, Hines Ward, Santana Moss, Andre Johnson, Chris Chambers, Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, T.O. Miller sucks ass.Kellen Clemens also sucks ass. You have not seen him live, I have. He will not succeed in the NFL.You do not need WRs to have an offense. You gotta be kidding me dude. WRs are the last piece of an offense. The O-line is more important. The QB is more important. The RB are more important. And the Jets have problems with all 3.
The reason teams ran on us all game is that our amazing offense would put up no points and give the other team 14 points on turnovers. All they had to do was run the clock out with short passes and runs for the entire 2nd half. Maybe they get a FG or even a TD or two, but mostly they just wanted the clock running.
Venom. You need mad props. You got the 5-poster (i don't know the word for it off the top of my head).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leftwich4MVP @ Sep 3 2006, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Justin Miller blows. Here are 10 WRs that can blow past him. Randy Moss, Hines Ward, Santana Moss, Andre Johnson, Chris Chambers, Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, T.O. Miller sucks ass.Kellen Clemens also sucks ass. You have not seen him live, I have. He will not succeed in the NFL.You do not need WRs to have an offense. You gotta be kidding me dude. WRs are the last piece of an offense. The O-line is more important. The QB is more important. The RB are more important. And the Jets have problems with all 3.</div>I'm making up defensive stats is what your saying, but I don't care about that.The bold names for WR's is just laughable at the fact they could outrun Miller. Those recievers are catch first guys, not burn people. I can't see how you base a corner just on speed anyway. Just because you Clemens "live" :LMAO: means you know everything. Look at Brady, a 6th round pick, looked like nothing before. Now look at him you idiot. WR's don't make an offense run eh? Take away Harrison, Wayne, and Stokley. Now tell me what the Colts offense has. Now you can be quiet, thanks.
