<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Jan 19 2007, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jan 19 2007, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Endy Chavez was a better player Offensively and Defensively then Melky Cabrera last year. The guy has been nothing other then average so far. I understand he's a fan favorite and is Overrated Defensively because he robbed Manny Ramirez of a Home Run, but cmon man. You can't possibly be this dilusional that you wouldn't trade Melky for LaRoche right now. In a perfect world, Melky would only become what LaRoche already is, and we don't live in a perfect world.</div>You are comparing a power hitting 1st baseman to a speedy outfielder. Of course Cabrere will never be what LaRoche is. Are you insane? That's like saying Maurice Jones-Drew will never become what Peyton Manning already is. Of course he won't, but he'll be great at what he does.</div>Melky Cabrera isn't even really that speedy.He stole 12 Bases last year. Cmon man.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jan 19 2007, 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Jan 19 2007, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jan 19 2007, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Endy Chavez was a better player Offensively and Defensively then Melky Cabrera last year. The guy has been nothing other then average so far. I understand he's a fan favorite and is Overrated Defensively because he robbed Manny Ramirez of a Home Run, but cmon man. You can't possibly be this dilusional that you wouldn't trade Melky for LaRoche right now. In a perfect world, Melky would only become what LaRoche already is, and we don't live in a perfect world.</div>You are comparing a power hitting 1st baseman to a speedy outfielder. Of course Cabrere will never be what LaRoche is. Are you insane? That's like saying Maurice Jones-Drew will never become what Peyton Manning already is. Of course he won't, but he'll be great at what he does.</div>Melky Cabrera isn't even really that speedy.He stole 12 Bases last year. Cmon man.</div>Yeah he stole 12 bases... in New York! Where they have to go out of their way to give Damon base stealing chances. NY doesn't send the runner, relying on their bats instead to get them runs. When was the last time you watched a Yankee game where they were playing small-ball?
[quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='81349' date='Jan 19 2007, 05:43 PM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='81348' date='Jan 19 2007, 05:39 PM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='81346' date='Jan 19 2007, 05:34 PM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='81343' date='Jan 19 2007, 05:24 PM']Endy Chavez was a better player Offensively and Defensively then Melky Cabrera last year. The guy has been nothing other then average so far. I understand he's a fan favorite and is Overrated Defensively because he robbed Manny Ramirez of a Home Run, but cmon man. You can't possibly be this dilusional that you wouldn't trade Melky for LaRoche right now. In a perfect world, Melky would only become what LaRoche already is, and we don't live in a perfect world.[/quote]You are comparing a power hitting 1st baseman to a speedy outfielder. Of course Cabrere will never be what LaRoche is. Are you insane? That's like saying Maurice Jones-Drew will never become what Peyton Manning already is. Of course he won't, but he'll be great at what he does.[/quote]Melky Cabrera isn't even really that speedy.He stole 12 Bases last year. Cmon man.[/quote]Yeah he stole 12 bases... in New York! Where they have to go out of their way to give Damon base stealing chances. NY doesn't send the runner, relying on their bats instead to get them runs. When was the last time you watched a Yankee game where they were playing small-ball?[/quote]Jeter stole 34Damon stole 25A-Rod stole 15Hell, even Miguel F'n Cairo stole 13 in about half as many chances.Apparantly they play it more then your letting on. :whistling:
[quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='81352' date='Jan 19 2007, 06:57 PM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='81349' date='Jan 19 2007, 05:43 PM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='81348' date='Jan 19 2007, 05:39 PM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='81346' date='Jan 19 2007, 05:34 PM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='81343' date='Jan 19 2007, 05:24 PM']Endy Chavez was a better player Offensively and Defensively then Melky Cabrera last year. The guy has been nothing other then average so far. I understand he's a fan favorite and is Overrated Defensively because he robbed Manny Ramirez of a Home Run, but cmon man. You can't possibly be this dilusional that you wouldn't trade Melky for LaRoche right now. In a perfect world, Melky would only become what LaRoche already is, and we don't live in a perfect world.[/quote]You are comparing a power hitting 1st baseman to a speedy outfielder. Of course Cabrere will never be what LaRoche is. Are you insane? That's like saying Maurice Jones-Drew will never become what Peyton Manning already is. Of course he won't, but he'll be great at what he does.[/quote]Melky Cabrera isn't even really that speedy.He stole 12 Bases last year. Cmon man.[/quote]Yeah he stole 12 bases... in New York! Where they have to go out of their way to give Damon base stealing chances. NY doesn't send the runner, relying on their bats instead to get them runs. When was the last time you watched a Yankee game where they were playing small-ball?[/quote]Jeter stole 34Damon stole 25A-Rod stole 15Hell, even Miguel F'n Cairo stole 13 in about half as many chances.Apparantly they play it more then your letting on. :whistling:[/quote]Jeter Damon and A-Rod are stars. They are allowed to steal bases without getting the sign.Cairo has earned the trust of the coaching staff.
^^HAHAdude, that's the biggest bs ever. come on man. you dug yourself into a hole, admit that cabrera is overrated and not as good as you are making him out to be so we can all move on. i know how you feel man, i mean, when JT snow was on the giants, i thought he shoulda been an all-star every year, but thats only because he was a fan favorite.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iknobaer @ Jan 19 2007, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^^HAHAdude, that's the biggest bs ever. come on man. you dug yourself into a hole, admit that cabrera is overrated and not as good as you are making him out to be so we can all move on. i know how you feel man, i mean, when JT snow was on the giants, i thought he shoulda been an all-star every year, but thats only because he was a fan favorite.</div>He just had a top notch rookie year. He will be great. And SB numbers don't equal speed. Especially the rookie year.
You guys need to read Moneyball. Defense isn't as important as people make it to be, and stealing bases is luck
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KyleOrton18 @ Jan 20 2007, 08:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You guys need to read Moneyball. Defense isn't as important as people make it to be, and stealing bases is luck</div>Riiigghhtt....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KyleOrton18 @ Jan 20 2007, 08:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You guys need to read Moneyball. Defense isn't as important as people make it to be, and stealing bases is luck</div>Defense isn't important, hence why the A's (aka the Moneyball team) have one of the best defensive teams in the league, right?And to a certain degree, anything is luck. Stealing bases requires several unique skills like reading a pitcher, getting down his timing, getting a good jump, running your ass off, and if necessary slideing in a way so you don't get tagged. Yeah, if a catcher throws it into center field you can try and label it as luck, but if that is luck, should we not count it lucky anytime a pitcher hangs a pitch over the middle of the plate that gets hit 500 feet?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Jan 19 2007, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iknobaer @ Jan 19 2007, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^^HAHAdude, that's the biggest bs ever. come on man. you dug yourself into a hole, admit that cabrera is overrated and not as good as you are making him out to be so we can all move on. i know how you feel man, i mean, when JT snow was on the giants, i thought he shoulda been an all-star every year, but thats only because he was a fan favorite.</div>He just had a top notch rookie year. He will be great. And SB numbers don't equal speed. Especially the rookie year.</div>WHAT!do you realize what you are saying? i dont even understand that freakin coment man, dude, SB's dont equal speed? since when? who cares if it's their rookie year? what the hell?So you are saying in his first year over 100 games, the fact that Carl Crawford 55bases doesnt equal speed, because it was his "rookie" year?Chone Figgins, first year over 100 games, 34SB's doesnt equal speed?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iknobaer @ Jan 20 2007, 08:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>WHAT!do you realize what you are saying? i dont even understand that freakin coment man, dude, SB's dont equal speed? since when? who cares if it's their rookie year? what the hell?So you are saying in his first year over 100 games, the fact that Carl Crawford 55bases doesnt equal speed, because it was his "rookie" year?Chone Figgins, first year over 100 games, 34SB's doesnt equal speed?</div>Actually, I agree with him on that one. Not all base-stealers are fast players. Both Derek Jeter and David Wright have rather average speed, yet due to good base-running skills they stole 34 and 20 bases last season respectively. Melky Cabrera himself really isn't very fast either, maybe someday he will progress into that kinda role but he hasn't really shown that ability so far.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jan 20 2007, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KyleOrton18 @ Jan 20 2007, 08:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You guys need to read Moneyball. Defense isn't as important as people make it to be, and stealing bases is luck</div>Defense isn't important, hence why the A's (aka the Moneyball team) have one of the best defensive teams in the league, right?And to a certain degree, anything is luck. Stealing bases requires several unique skills like reading a pitcher, getting down his timing, getting a good jump, running your ass off, and if necessary slideing in a way so you don't get tagged. Yeah, if a catcher throws it into center field you can try and label it as luck, but if that is luck, should we not count it lucky anytime a pitcher hangs a pitch over the middle of the plate that gets hit 500 feet?</div>Oakland may have good defense, but they are not really concerned about it. They are concerned about OBP. How many of you guys were LMAO after their 2002 draft?? Most of MLB was. Nick Swisher wasn't even supposed to have a chance at MLB
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KyleOrton18 @ Jan 20 2007, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jan 20 2007, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KyleOrton18 @ Jan 20 2007, 08:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You guys need to read Moneyball. Defense isn't as important as people make it to be, and stealing bases is luck</div>Defense isn't important, hence why the A's (aka the Moneyball team) have one of the best defensive teams in the league, right?And to a certain degree, anything is luck. Stealing bases requires several unique skills like reading a pitcher, getting down his timing, getting a good jump, running your ass off, and if necessary slideing in a way so you don't get tagged. Yeah, if a catcher throws it into center field you can try and label it as luck, but if that is luck, should we not count it lucky anytime a pitcher hangs a pitch over the middle of the plate that gets hit 500 feet?</div>Oakland may have good defense, but they are not really concerned about it. They are concerned about OBP. How many of you guys were LMAO after their 2002 draft?? Most of MLB was. Nick Swisher wasn't even supposed to have a chance at MLB</div>How many of us were saying anything after their 2002 draft? The only drafts I pay attention to are the Beer and the NFL.And good defense lowers the opposing team's OBP, in case you didn't know.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jan 20 2007, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iknobaer @ Jan 20 2007, 08:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>WHAT!do you realize what you are saying? i dont even understand that freakin coment man, dude, SB's dont equal speed? since when? who cares if it's their rookie year? what the hell?So you are saying in his first year over 100 games, the fact that Carl Crawford 55bases doesnt equal speed, because it was his "rookie" year?Chone Figgins, first year over 100 games, 34SB's doesnt equal speed?</div>Actually, I agree with him on that one. Not all base-stealers are fast players. Both Derek Jeter and David Wright have rather average speed, yet due to good base-running skills they stole 34 and 20 bases last season respectively. </div>And not all fast players are base steelers. Melky is fast, and he'll develope base stealing ability.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iknobaer @ Jan 18 2007, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That's why he is so willing to Cabrera, he knows, he knows Cabrera won't be like LaRoche, why was he trying to trade him, and why weren't the Braves accepting? Because LaRoche is more promising.</div>Where'd you pull that one out of? The trade wasn't working because the Braves or Pirates (forgot which one exactly since the trade changed a few times) wanted the Yankees to put Proctor into the deal aswell. It had nothing to do with Melky having little or no value to us, we were just putting him on the table for a strong young setup man like Mike Gonzalez. But when it came down to it, the talent difference between Gonzalez and Proctor wasn't worth trading Melky. I think that says plent about what we think of him..
[quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='81473' date='Jan 20 2007, 11:55 PM'][quote name='KyleOrton18' post='81467' date='Jan 20 2007, 09:36 PM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='81412' date='Jan 20 2007, 12:40 PM'][quote name='KyleOrton18' post='81394' date='Jan 20 2007, 08:23 AM']You guys need to read Moneyball. Defense isn't as important as people make it to be, and stealing bases is luck[/quote]Defense isn't important, hence why the A's (aka the Moneyball team) have one of the best defensive teams in the league, right?And to a certain degree, anything is luck. Stealing bases requires several unique skills like reading a pitcher, getting down his timing, getting a good jump, running your ass off, and if necessary slideing in a way so you don't get tagged. Yeah, if a catcher throws it into center field you can try and label it as luck, but if that is luck, should we not count it lucky anytime a pitcher hangs a pitch over the middle of the plate that gets hit 500 feet?[/quote]Oakland may have good defense, but they are not really concerned about it. They are concerned about OBP. How many of you guys were LMAO after their 2002 draft?? Most of MLB was. Nick Swisher wasn't even supposed to have a chance at MLB[/quote]How many of us were saying anything after their 2002 draft? The only drafts I pay attention to are the Beer and the NFL.And good defense lowers the opposing team's OBP, in case you didn't know.[/quote]See, this is all the crap people say. Just read Moneyball. It's good book.
[quote name='GaMeTiMe' post='81479' date='Jan 20 2007, 10:13 PM'][quote name='iknobaer' post='81260' date='Jan 18 2007, 08:18 PM']That's why he is so willing to Cabrera, he knows, he knows Cabrera won't be like LaRoche, why was he trying to trade him, and why weren't the Braves accepting? Because LaRoche is more promising.[/quote]Where'd you pull that one out of? The trade wasn't working because the Braves or Pirates (forgot which one exactly since the trade changed a few times) wanted the Yankees to put Proctor into the deal aswell. It had nothing to do with Melky having little or no value to us, we were just putting him on the table for a strong young setup man like Mike Gonzalez. But when it came down to it, the talent difference between Gonzalez and Proctor wasn't worth trading Melky. I think that says plent about what we think of him..[/quote]And as far as I know, the Yankees were never set up to recieve LaRoche.[quote name='KyleOrton18' post='81489' date='Jan 21 2007, 08:06 AM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='81473' date='Jan 20 2007, 11:55 PM'][quote name='KyleOrton18' post='81467' date='Jan 20 2007, 09:36 PM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='81412' date='Jan 20 2007, 12:40 PM'][quote name='KyleOrton18' post='81394' date='Jan 20 2007, 08:23 AM']You guys need to read Moneyball. Defense isn't as important as people make it to be, and stealing bases is luck[/quote]Defense isn't important, hence why the A's (aka the Moneyball team) have one of the best defensive teams in the league, right?And to a certain degree, anything is luck. Stealing bases requires several unique skills like reading a pitcher, getting down his timing, getting a good jump, running your ass off, and if necessary slideing in a way so you don't get tagged. Yeah, if a catcher throws it into center field you can try and label it as luck, but if that is luck, should we not count it lucky anytime a pitcher hangs a pitch over the middle of the plate that gets hit 500 feet?[/quote]Oakland may have good defense, but they are not really concerned about it. They are concerned about OBP. How many of you guys were LMAO after their 2002 draft?? Most of MLB was. Nick Swisher wasn't even supposed to have a chance at MLB[/quote]How many of us were saying anything after their 2002 draft? The only drafts I pay attention to are the Beer and the NFL.And good defense lowers the opposing team's OBP, in case you didn't know.[/quote]See, this is all the crap people say. Just read Moneyball. It's good book.[/quote]Good argument.
HEY!! Moneyball shows all the flaws in people's thinking about the game. Oakland exposed them, got cheap talent and won
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Jan 21 2007, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GaMeTiMe @ Jan 20 2007, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where'd you pull that one out of? The trade wasn't working because the Braves or Pirates (forgot which one exactly since the trade changed a few times) wanted the Yankees to put Proctor into the deal aswell. It had nothing to do with Melky having little or no value to us, we were just putting him on the table for a strong young setup man like Mike Gonzalez. But when it came down to it, the talent difference between Gonzalez and Proctor wasn't worth trading Melky. I think that says plent about what we think of him..</div>And as far as I know, the Yankees were never set up to recieve LaRoche.</div>Where'd I say that? It was just supposed to be a three team deal involving the Pirates and Braves, where we'd be getting Gonzalez and giving Melky and Proctor.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GaMeTiMe @ Jan 21 2007, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Jan 21 2007, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GaMeTiMe @ Jan 20 2007, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Where'd you pull that one out of? The trade wasn't working because the Braves or Pirates (forgot which one exactly since the trade changed a few times) wanted the Yankees to put Proctor into the deal aswell. It had nothing to do with Melky having little or no value to us, we were just putting him on the table for a strong young setup man like Mike Gonzalez. But when it came down to it, the talent difference between Gonzalez and Proctor wasn't worth trading Melky. I think that says plent about what we think of him..</div>And as far as I know, the Yankees were never set up to recieve LaRoche.</div>Where'd I say that? It was just supposed to be a three team deal involving the Pirates and Braves, where we'd be getting Gonzalez and giving Melky and Proctor.</div>You didn't.
