<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Read: Andruw Jones Is Overrated In an except from his book "The Stark Truth: The Most Overrated and Underrated Players in Baseball History" on ESPN, Jayson Stark describes Andruw Jones not only one of the most overrated players in baseball, but a poster boy for the study because of the difference between perception and reality when it comes to Jones.Stark begins by describing how much in awe he was of Jones while watching him in the 1996 World Series, when a 19-year old Jones became the youngest player in baseball history to hit a home run in the World Series. Jones also joined Mr. October, Reggie Jackson, as the only men to hit October home runs in three consecutive at-bats. However, Stark observes how Jones has not been the same player since 2001.The defensive side of Jones' game has fallen dramatically in terms of his zone rating, which measures the percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical zone. ...in other words, percentage of balls that he should be able to catch...After being on top in 2001, Jones fell to 13th among Major League centerfielders in 2002, and continued his descent in each subsequent year, placing 3rd to last in 2003, and dead last in 2004. He had a small bump back up last year, raising his zone rating to 6th from last place in 2006, and is currently back to being the worst in zone rating so far this season.Offensively, Stark quotes a scout who had this to say about Jones..."not a very good offensive player. ... If he wants to hit a home run, he'll try to hit a home run -- at the expense of everything else."Jones had the lowest batting average, slugging percentage, OPS, and park-adjusted OPS-plus that any player has ever had in a 50-homer season. He reached base fewer times than any 50-homer man ever and created fewer runs than any 50-homer man ever had. A fellow player is quoted as well, describing how Jones has been able to fool people into thinking he's the same player."It's all perception," said one player who has played against Jones for years. "Perception is like muscle memory. People have a memory of you doing something. So you have to do something dramatically different to undo that memory."Stark posts his list of top 10 overrated players from his book on another article on ESPN, with Barry Zito topping the list.</div>Interesting Read.
It is interesting... I was thinking that this was just one of Andruw's slow season starts, but it seems that he can't even see the ball right. I don't know what we'll do with him after this year, but now I really don't even care. Although he's a high rated player, he's definetly OVER rated.Talking about Andruw pisses me off. He sucks lol
Here's an interesting read from an Atlanta Braves Blog that I just read...<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>"By gondeee Section: NewsPosted on Thu May 24, 2007 at 03:34:37 PM EDTThere are many on this blog and other blogs as well as members of the mainstream media who have been down on Andruw Jones lately. And with the way he's been playing it's not hard to see why. But now we get this excerpt from a new book by Jayson Stark, who writes over at the world leader, about how he believes that Andruw Jones is the "most overrated center fielder of all time." I guess I should have asked Scott Boras to have a seat before he read that, because it is the exact opposite of what the super-agent will be claiming as he trots Jones from city to city extolling the virtues of what at that time will likely be 10 straight gold gloves and 375 career homeruns. Mister Stark would tell GMs to put down the pen and close the checkbook because when it comes to Andruw's defense he has this to say:From 1998 through 2002, [Andruw]was still That Guy. He topped 400 putouts five years in a row. No outfielder had done that since Mays (1954-1958). He was The Best. Clearly. But since then? Not the same player.He peaked at 493 putouts in 1999. He was still slurping up 461 in 2001. But by 2005 he was down to 365. In 2006 he was at 377. I tried looking at his total chances per game. Still way down. We're talking about 100 or so balls a year he wasn't getting to that he used to. A hundred.I thought: that can't be right. A friend suggested maybe it was a function of the Braves' pitching staff. Maybe they were just throwing fewer fly balls than they used to. Great point. So I checked. Fortunately, there's a stat that measures that, too -- zone rating (the percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical zone).So I called up the 2006 zone rating of all qualifying major league center fielders on ESPN.com. Guess who was last on the list? Yessir, Andruw. He also finished last in 2004. And fifth from the bottom in 2005. I kept checking. As recently as 2001, he led his league in zone rating.According to Stark, at one time Jones really WAS all he was cracked up to be, but now just five years on he's the MOST overrated. "Most overrated" is a bit harsh. Jones may be slowing a bit, as has Griffey, as did Mays, as have many others, but "most overrated!" His defense was the one part of his game we Braves fans thought was a constant. Perhaps Stark is right that watching him day in and day out one doesn't get a good feel for the overall picture.The other part of Andruw's game that Braves fans have been moaning about this year is his offense. This is the other big thing which Stark points to trying to support his most overrated claim. I probably agree with this a bit more:But even Jones's big offensive surge has been misleading. Amazingly, one scout called him "not a very good offensive player. ... If he wants to hit a home run, he'll try to hit a home run -- at the expense of everything else."He smoked 51 home runs in 2005, a very seductive number. But I checked every 50-homer season in baseball history. Again, I had a tough time digesting what I found. Jones had the lowest batting average, slugging percentage, OPS, and park-adjusted OPS-plus that any player has ever had in a 50-homer season. He reached base fewer times than any 50-homer man ever. And if you take in the bigger picture, with Bill James's incisive runs-created stat, Andruw "created" fewer runs than any 50-homer man ever had. In fact, he created fewer runs that year with his 51-homer season than three hitters who didn't even have a 20-homer season -- Brian Roberts, Derek Jeter, and Brian Giles.Wow! Just heaping on the hate for AJ. But Stark is looking at Jones through an outsider's viewpoint and from a statistical viewpoint. This all begs the question, "have we really been missing the big picture about Andruw Jones?" This season notwithstanding most Braves' fans and people in baseball have held Jones up to the microscope and for the most part he's held up, but has he been fooling us all along? Stark brings up the point that our perception of Jones is one that comes from a younger, thinner, faster, more agile Andruw, and that the thick, powerful, all-or-nothing-swinging Andruw we see today is not really the same player.Stark points to 2001 as the last great defensive season for AJ. We can look at something else that happened around that time as another indicator of Andruw's decline - he stopped stealing bases. He was never a great base stealer, but at least he tried and it was a part of his game. Since 2001 Andruw has not stolen more than 8 bases in any season - this after stealing 20 or more for four straight years from 97 to 2000. Was Andruw changing his game?Even more evidence can be found in 2001. Up until that season, AJ had averaged 110 strikeouts per full season; only once whiffing more than 107 times. In 2001 he racked up 142 strikeouts, and ever since then he has averaged 131 Ks per year - only once dipping below 125 Ks in a season.So what do we take away from all of this? Is Andruw Jones the "most overrated" center fielder in baseball history? No, he's not. He may be a bit overrated now, both offensively and defensively. Has he lost a step or two? Probably, most players do with age. But for those of us who watch the Braves day after day Andruw still makes the impossible play look routine, and until this year has been a fairly consistent force in the middle of the Braves offence.Maybe I can't see it.Maybe I don't want to admit it. After all, we did watch Andruw grow up with the Braves.Maybe he really is overrated, or the most overrated. Or maybe he'll get hot all of a sudden and make everyone forget all these statistical failings."</div>http://www.talkingchop.com/
I didn't realize that people didn't know his defense had gone down hill. Thought it was common knowledge. Like when Bernie Williams' defense was gone down hill, but he still had the bat to keep a starting spot.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 24 2007, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I didn't realize that people didn't know his defense had gone down hill. Thought it was common knowledge. Like when Bernie Williams' defense was gone down hill, but he still had the bat to keep a starting spot.</div>I've been aware that it was on the decline, but worst zone rating in the league I definately didn't imagine, I was very suprised to see that one. The average fan hasn't been aware of his declining defense though, mainly thanks to ESPN and similar TV Shows propping him up every time he does make a highlight catch. The problem with Jones seems to be that average fan views him as this Athletic, Great defender (From his Early Days) with Great Power (From his recent years), and that isn't the case. The reality is in his early days he was a Great Defender with Good speed and Good (Not Great) power on top of a Decent Average, but he became Home Run Happy and has turned into a Low Batting Average, High-Strikeout Slugger who bulked up and lost the speed that once made him a Great Defender and a Good Threat on the Basepaths.....essentially he's become Adam Dunn in that he's a Home Run or Bust type hitter.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 24 2007, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 24 2007, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I didn't realize that people didn't know his defense had gone down hill. Thought it was common knowledge. Like when Bernie Williams' defense was gone down hill, but he still had the bat to keep a starting spot.</div>I've been aware that it was on the decline, but worst zone rating in the league I definately didn't imagine, I was very suprised to see that one. The average fan hasn't been aware of his declining defense though, mainly thanks to ESPN and similar TV Shows propping him up every time he does make a highlight catch. The problem with Jones seems to be that average fan views him as this Athletic, Great defender (From his Early Days) with Great Power (From his recent years), and that isn't the case. The reality is in his early days he was a Great Defender with Good speed and Good (Not Great) power on top of a Decent Average, but he became Home Run Happy and has turned into a Low Batting Average, High-Strikeout Slugger who bulked up and lost the speed that once made him a Great Defender and a Good Threat on the Basepaths.....essentially he's become Adam Dunn in that he's a Home Run or Bust type hitter.</div>I'd like to see what Babe Ruth's zone rating, etc was. He set the single season strikeout record as well as the home run record you know, and he wasn't exactly in shape for the back half of his career.....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 24 2007, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd like to see what Babe Ruth's zone rating, etc was. He set the single season strikeout record as well as the home run record you know, and he wasn't exactly in shape for the back half of his career.....</div>Babe Ruth was never considered one of the Best Defensive Players in the game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 24 2007, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 24 2007, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd like to see what Babe Ruth's zone rating, etc was. He set the single season strikeout record as well as the home run record you know, and he wasn't exactly in shape for the back half of his career.....</div>Babe Ruth was never considered one of the Best Defensive Players in the game.</div>Hmm, but he was considered one of the best pitchers in the game....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 25 2007, 03:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 24 2007, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 24 2007, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd like to see what Babe Ruth's zone rating, etc was. He set the single season strikeout record as well as the home run record you know, and he wasn't exactly in shape for the back half of his career.....</div>Babe Ruth was never considered one of the Best Defensive Players in the game.</div>Hmm, but he was considered one of the best pitchers in the game....</div>And being a good pitcher somehow makes you good defensively? Tell that to Tigers fans after last years World Series. :whistling:
[quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='93193' date='May 25 2007, 05:28 PM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='93187' date='May 25 2007, 03:01 PM'][quote name='AdropOFvenom' post='93150' date='May 24 2007, 05:29 PM'][quote name='Jon_Vilma' post='93142' date='May 24 2007, 02:07 PM']I'd like to see what Babe Ruth's zone rating, etc was. He set the single season strikeout record as well as the home run record you know, and he wasn't exactly in shape for the back half of his career.....[/quote]Babe Ruth was never considered one of the Best Defensive Players in the game.[/quote]Hmm, but he was considered one of the best pitchers in the game....[/quote]And being a good pitcher somehow makes you good defensively? Tell that to Tigers fans after last years World Series. :whistling:[/quote]Obviously my jovial attitude isn't getting through, lol.
