Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" Vilma.. you're the one who just a few months ago was saying Marion is the best player in the league. Now I guess Kobe is.Oh yeah.. those trades you suggested proved how little basketball knowledge you must have.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 31 2007, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 31 2007, 07:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Anyone who doesn't realize this is following the mindset that Kobe is just another star. He's not. Compared to Kobe, guys like Dirk and KG are B- players, and even when compared to guys like Lebron, Kobe is an A++ to their A-. He IS that good, and there is no way around it.</div>And while you say that, LeBron is only going out there and proving that he is without a doubt the best player in the NBA. </div>Riigghhht. And if only Kobe had Lebron's supporting cast. And you can't even argue Lebron doesn't have a superior supporting cast to Kobe..... not to mention he gets to play in the Easytern conference....
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brooksie5 @ May 31 2007, 11:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Vilma.. you're the one who just a few months ago was saying Marion is the best player in the league. Now I guess Kobe is.Oh yeah.. those trades you suggested proved how little basketball knowledge you must have.</div>Marion is the best player based on statistical averages, which is what I was saying a few months ago. Look it up. Based on average statistical ranking, Marion ranks the best. That is a fact and is not debatable. The argument we had, if you'll remember, was whether he should be CONSIDERED in a discussion of who the best player is. My point was that the player with the highest average statistical ranking should be in the discussion. And if you'll look at conversations on who should be MVP from both this past season and the season before, you'll see that I have been saying Kobe is the MVP all along, and not Nash.And those trades I suggested reflected Kobe's real value, and the fact that you fail to understand the point that I made that Kobe's value is so high no GM CAN trade for him without giving more than his fan base and ownership could bear points in fact to your comprehension, or lack there of.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ May 31 2007, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Anyone who doesn't realize this is following the mindset that Kobe is just another star. He's not. Compared to Kobe, guys like Dirk and KG are B- players, and even when compared to guys like Lebron, Kobe is an A++ to their A-. He IS that good, and there is no way around it.</div>Lol.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Jun 1 2007, 02:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brooksie5 @ May 31 2007, 11:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Vilma.. you're the one who just a few months ago was saying Marion is the best player in the league. Now I guess Kobe is.Oh yeah.. those trades you suggested proved how little basketball knowledge you must have.</div>Marion is the best player based on statistical averages, which is what I was saying a few months ago. Look it up. Based on average statistical ranking, Marion ranks the best. That is a fact and is not debatable. The argument we had, if you'll remember, was whether he should be CONSIDERED in a discussion of who the best player is. My point was that the player with the highest average statistical ranking should be in the discussion. And if you'll look at conversations on who should be MVP from both this past season and the season before, you'll see that I have been saying Kobe is the MVP all along, and not Nash.And those trades I suggested reflected Kobe's real value, and the fact that you fail to understand the point that I made that Kobe's value is so high no GM CAN trade for him without giving more than his fan base and ownership could bear points in fact to your comprehension, or lack there of.</div>You're so full of shit. No one player is worth 3-4 very good-superstar players. Kobe has proved he cannot win without a great supporting cast. The only player that would be worth that many good players would be someone who could win a championship without a good cast.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" Lamar Odom, Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bynum, Vladimir Radmonovic, Luke Walton is a talented enough cast for a "A++" in your own words to lead them to a championship if a A- player can lead a team with a cast just a step above.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chang @ Jun 1 2007, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lamar Odom, Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Andrew Bynum, Vladimir Radmonovic, Luke Walton is a talented enough cast for a "A++" in your own words to lead them to a championship if a A- player can lead a team with a cast just a step above.</div>Listing their names doesn't make them quality. And no player can win a championship. Not even the greatest of the greats. Jordan couldn't do it with a mediocre supporting cast. Neither could Wilt. Kobe is taking a bottom 3 team in talent and making them a playoff team in the Western Conference. No other player in the NBA could do that. Which is why he is worth 2-3 good players, and a draft pick. Looking at the trades I listed the only one I'd back off of is the last one. Drop Caron Butler from it and it would make it even.Pretty much every trade listed was a "trade trash for treasure" projection, and saying it's even because your are sending 4 times as much trash as treasure. As one radio show host put it "4 Jettas do NOT equal a Lamborghini." You're talking about a league in which 5 players start and maximum 7 get a good amount of PT. Trading the most amazing playing in the NBA for 1 good player, and 3 role players is not an equal value. It's just not. Sending Marion (1 very good player) and a bunch of role players/bench warmers doesn't make much sense. Ask the Milwaukee Bucks how well it worked out for them when they traded Kareem Abdul Jabbar for 1 very good center (Elmore Smith, who recorded a record 17 blocked shots in 1 game, and averaged a double-double for his career), 1 two-time all star guard (Brian Winters), the 2nd overall pick (David Meyers) and the 8th overall pick (Junior Bridgeman) a few years after winning a national championship with him. They became a nobody team, the Lakers went on to win 5 Championships with Kareem.You don't trade star players without getting star players. You just don't unless you want to become just another team.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" That Bucks trade is kind of different. It's the Bucks fault for not knowing how to draft.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" And this even goes beyond NBA talent. Kobe is not only the best player in the world, he's the biggest money mover. You think the Staples Center gets filled to watch Lamar Odom? You think it will be filled to watch a decent team with Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, and Lamar Odom running the show? Is Shawn Marion what drives people to the seats in Phoenix? Look at the Spurs for example. They are at least the 2nd best franchise this decade. They are probably going to win the championship this year for the 4th time in the past 9 years. And no one cares because they simply aren't exciting. They don't get people into seats. Which is why they weren't even in the top half of visiting teams that increased ticket sales. The Lakers put more people in seats, and it's not because they are a better team. It's because of Kobe.Kobe sells more jerseys in China than Yao Ming.He is the biggest money mover in the NBA. From a business standpoint, you don't sell the biggest money mover in your business for parts. Starbucks wouldn't stop selling coffee in order to put all of their weight behind selling beans, mugs, thermoses, and pastries.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Jun 1 2007, 02:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You think it will be filled to watch a decent team with Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, and Lamar Odom running the show?</div>Yes. Without a doubt it will be. The Lakers put people in the Seats because they're the Lakers. They're like the Yankees in that you either love them or hate them and there is no middle ground, but either way you go to the game either to cheer for them or root against them. Success breeds Jealously. And much like the Knicks are, weather they have a quality team or not there will be a ton of people sitting in the seats because they have a great fan base and it's the 'In' thing to do. That has little to do with Kobe.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jun 1 2007, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jon_Vilma @ Jun 1 2007, 02:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You think it will be filled to watch a decent team with Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, and Lamar Odom running the show?</div>Yes. Without a doubt it will be. The Lakers put people in the Seats because they're the Lakers. They're like the Yankees in that you either love them or hate them and there is no middle ground, but either way you go to the game either to cheer for them or root against them. Success breeds Jealously. And much like the Knicks are, weather they have a quality team or not there will be a ton of people sitting in the seats because they have a great fan base and it's the 'In' thing to do. That has little to do with Kobe.</div>See, that's where you're wrong. LA has things to do, UCLA Basketball, the Clippers, the Lakers, the Dodgers, Southern Cal. Football, The Raiders and A's are near by, the Angels, then you have all the non sports stuff. When the Yankees were terrible and the Blue Jays were winning rings, the Yankees were only half filling the stands. Why do people watch the Yankees now, despite the losing? Because they have STARS. And Basketball is a star driven league. People go to watch stars. List the teams that pack the house when they are losers. There are few teams that pack the house when they are losers. The Cubs, the Packers, the Bears, the Bulls and that's about it. Northern teams where fans have nothing to do outside of watch their team. The Lakers are in LA. There is a lot to do there, and why watch Deng bring the team to a 35 win season when you could be doing a million other things? Of course there are die hards. There are always die hards for every team. But a team doesn't live on die hards, it lives on the casual fan who they get through the door. Basketball attendence is down, but people still go to watch special stars.You brought up the Knicks. That proves the point. The Knicks had the record for most consecutive games sold out, but they stopped selling games out when they started sucking. Why? There are other things to do in New York. The Garden was no longer sold out, once the Knicks didn't have the star power to bring players in. They have no stars, and are not good (which are intertwined btw) so no one goes. Take Kobe from the Lakers, the house will not be packed. You'll have a mediocre team that is boring and too many other things to do in LA.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" Yeah, the Knicks in all their misery only sold 95.1% of their Tickets last season, as opposed to 95.8 in 2005-2006, 98.7% in 2004-2005, 96.6% in 2003-2004, and 96.2% in 2002-2003. Their misery caused at most a 1-3% decrease in the amount of tickets sold, which is next to nothing. The Lakers sold 99.6% this year, as opposed to 99.1% in 2005-2006, 98.7% in 2004-2005, 99.5% in 2003-2004, and 98.4% in 2002-2003. Their Attendence has actually gone up in recent years marginally, even though they haven't been a legit Championship Contender and they lost a star player in Shaq. You take Kobe away, and they will still sell above 95% of the tickets for next season. Sorry, but it's a fact. They might have other things they could do, but they sure aren't doing them because they're going to the games regardless of weather their team is Good, or Bad. Why do people watch the Yankees now? Because America Hates the Yankees and likes to revel in their misery. Plain and Simple. People aren't watching the games to see Bobby Abreu, Robinson Cano, or Johnny Damon when they hitting at replacement player level or going to see Mike Mussina when he is playing at replacement player level as well.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" Venom's right, its just cuz they're the Lakers. I live here, I know. And the Cards and D-backs are closer than the Raiders and A's are lol...
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ Jun 1 2007, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, the Knicks in all their misery only sold 95.1% of their Tickets last season, as opposed to 95.8 in 2005-2006, 98.7% in 2004-2005, 96.6% in 2003-2004, and 96.2% in 2002-2003. Their misery caused at most a 1-3% decrease in the amount of tickets sold, which is next to nothing. The Lakers sold 99.6% this year, as opposed to 99.1% in 2005-2006, 98.7% in 2004-2005, 99.5% in 2003-2004, and 98.4% in 2002-2003. Their Attendence has actually gone up in recent years marginally, even though they haven't been a legit Championship Contender and they lost a star player in Shaq. You take Kobe away, and they will still sell above 95% of the tickets for next season. Sorry, but it's a fact. They might have other things they could do, but they sure aren't doing them because they're going to the games regardless of weather their team is Good, or Bad. Why do people watch the Yankees now? Because America Hates the Yankees and likes to revel in their misery. Plain and Simple. People aren't watching the games to see Bobby Abreu, Robinson Cano, or Johnny Damon when they hitting at replacement player level or going to see Mike Mussina when he is playing at replacement player level as well. </div>First, you've ceded the main point already. Now you are arguing the peripherals. Lol. But ok. The Knicks sold out every game when they had a legit star in Ewing. And if the Lakers aren't selling out with Kobe you think they'll sell 95% without him and without replacing another star while while making a half assed run at the playoffs? I'm sorry, but they won't. And since we are down to you trying to win the third tier of the argument, I'll go ahead and claim victory and move on. You can have the third tier, I'll take 1 and 2 and be perfectly satisfied.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" Listening to you, one would think that Kobe was the second coming of Christ.And you're right, MJ didn't win championships without a supporting cast. But it's not because the supporting cast lacked talent. It was because MJ was able to get the most of his teammates and made their team better. Think Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman would have been able to lead a team to the playoffs? On the other hand, Kobe just wants to pile up stats and play 1 on 5. He's not a leader. He just does what he wants. No one, as talented as they are, would want to play hard with him cause Kobe is Kobe. He has to get his 35 shot attempts per game and there's no point in attempting to support him if he never gives you the chance and goes public about having to go solo and talking about how he alone has to win games.Because Kobe can't win a championship because of his pure nature, there's no way he's worth more than a bunch of very good players. At least those very good players cause bond and create a great team. While Kobe will just be one of the best individual players but the best player to never be able to lead his team to a championship. Shaq was the one that won those championships. Wade led the Heat to the championship last year. Tim Duncan led his team to championships when Robinson was aging. LeBron might lead his team to a championship this year. All Kobe can say is he won 3 championships... as the sidekick.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ Jun 3 2007, 07:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As the side kick? :LMAO:</div>Who was the MVP of the 3 titles they won? Was it Kobe? No. It was Shaq
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DevinHester23 @ Jun 3 2007, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ Jun 3 2007, 07:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As the side kick? :LMAO:</div>Who was the MVP of the 3 titles they won? Was it Kobe? No. It was Shaq</div>Exactly. And who the MVP during the championship years? Shaq.Kobe will never win an MVP until he proves he can not only deliver good stats but be a good leader on the court and teammate that can make everyone around him better.Oh and by the way, he's a bush league player by flailing his arms whenever he gets blocked or stripped.
Re: Kobe tells Lakers, "TRADE ME" <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe will never win an MVP until he proves he can not only deliver good stats but be a good leader on the court and teammate that can make everyone around him better.</div>Sad, but true.One thing Dirk Nowitzki, and Steve Nash both had in common though, was that second guy who could create his own shot, and pick up the slack when either of them were struggling. One thing Kobe hasn't had the benefit of since Shaq left LA.And with that said, LA still manages to make the postseason. That's the defenition of valuable.Who does Kobe have?Smush Parker? He belongs in the D League.Lamar Odom? Consistently inconsistent.Luke Walton? Unlike his father, he's just a role player, and always will be.Kwame Brown? He's far form his days in Washington, but is very inconsistent as well.Andrew Bynum? Brian Cook? Aaron McKie? Chris Mihm? Sasha Vujacic? PLEASE.Los Angeles may not have had the best record in the league, far from it, but you take either Dirk, or Nash off their respective teams, and put them up against the Lakers without Kobe, it wouldn't even be a contest. Once again, the defenition of valuable.And lastly, do you know who Shaq (yes, Shaq) picked as his MVP? He even said it on the radio. Not Dirk, not Nash, not LeBron, but Kobe. As did Amare Stoudemire. They know what they're talking about.By the way, I'm a Sonics fan, not a Lakers homer.
