So I am still trying to figure out how exactly it is that a player like Michael Irving makes it into the Hall of Fame. Here is a guy that only had one season in his entire carreer that he led the NFL in anything, and it wasn't even his best year which shows how weak the recieving that year must have been. Only one season where he caught more than 100 passes, only one season where he caught double digit TDs. He isn't in the top 10 in any recieving category. Only the 14th best in yards, 20th (t) best in receptions, and all the way down to 37th in TDs. He made the Pro Bowl five times, but that is less than half the seasons he played. He was on a team that one three Super Bowls, but personally he only averaged 85 yards per the three games and only scored a total of two TDs. Oh yeah and list of things he has done off the field make doing a little steroids in baseball look like recreational drug use!</p> So can anyone explain to me what qualifies him to be there?</p> Just asking...</p> Andy</p>
I see what you are saying, but 750 catches and 11904 yards is nothing to sneeze out....he lost some numbers to injuries, but his average totals for seasons in which he played all 16 games was 85 catches, 1330 yards, and 7 TDs....those are Hall of Fame numbers....in fact, in seasons in which he played all 16 games, he never failed to reach 1000 yards recieving....I will post the numbers, because I want to hear what others think about them:</p> </p> </p><table border="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="footer" colspan="2"></td> <td class="footer" width="8%"></td> <td class="footer" colspan="4"> <div align="center">Receiving</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="header2" width="15%">Year</td> <td class="header2" width="45%">Team</td> <td class="header2" width="8%"> <div align="center">G</div> </td> <td class="header2" width="8%"> <div align="right">No.</div> </td> <td class="header2" width="8%"> <div align="right">Yds.</div> </td> <td class="header2" width="8%"> <div align="right">Avg.</div> </td> <td class="header2" width="8%"> <div align="right">TD</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="row1" width="15%">1988</td> <td class="row1" width="45%">Dallas</td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="center">14</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">32</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">654</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">20. 4</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">5</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="row2" width="15%">1989</td> <td class="row2" width="45%">Dallas</td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="center">6</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">26</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">378</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">14. 5</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">2</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="row1" width="15%">1990</td> <td class="row1" width="45%">Dallas</td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="center">12</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">20</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">413</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">20. 7</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">5</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="row2" width="15%">1991</td> <td class="row2" width="45%">Dallas</td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="center">16</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">93</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">1523</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">16. 4</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">8</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="row1" width="15%">1992</td> <td class="row1" width="45%">Dallas</td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="center">16</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">78</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">1396</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">17. 9</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">7</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="row2" width="15%">1993</td> <td class="row2" width="45%">Dallas</td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="center">16</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">88</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">1330</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">15. 1</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">7</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="row1" width="15%">1994</td> <td class="row1" width="45%">Dallas</td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="center">16</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">79</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">1241</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">15. 7</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">6</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="row2" width="15%">1995</td> <td class="row2" width="45%">Dallas</td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="center">16</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">111</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">1603</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">14. 4</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">10</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="row1" width="15%">1996</td> <td class="row1" width="45%">Dallas</td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="center">11</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">64</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">962</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">15. 0</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">2</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="row2" width="15%">1997</td> <td class="row2" width="45%">Dallas</td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="center">16</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">75</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">1180</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">15. 7</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">9</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="row1" width="15%">1998</td> <td class="row1" width="45%">Dallas</td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="center">16</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">74</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">1057</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">14. 3</div> </td> <td class="row1" width="8%"> <div align="right">1</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="row2" width="15%">1999</td> <td class="row2" width="45%">Dallas</td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="center">4</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">10</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">167</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">16. 7</div> </td> <td class="row2" width="8%"> <div align="right">3</div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="header2" colspan="2" width="15%">Career Total</td> <td class="header2" width="8%"> <div align="center">159</div> </td> <td class="header2" width="8%"> <div align="right">750</div> </td> <td class="header2" width="8%"> <div align="right">11,904</div> </td> <td class="header2" width="8%"> <div align="right">15. 9</div> </td> <td class="header2" width="8%"> <div align="right">65</div></td></tr></tbody></table>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aatencio)</div><div class='quotemain'> So I am still trying to figure out how exactly it is that a player like Michael Irving makes it into the Hall of Fame. Here is a guy that only had one season in his entire carreer that he led the NFL in anything, and it wasn't even his best year which shows how weak the recieving that year must have been. Only one season where he caught more than 100 passes, only one season where he caught double digit TDs. He isn't in the top 10 in any recieving category. Only the 14th best in yards, 20th (t) best in receptions, and all the way down to 37th in TDs. He made the Pro Bowl five times, but that is less than half the seasons he played. He was on a team that one three Super Bowls, but personally he only averaged 85 yards per the three games and only scored a total of two TDs. Oh yeah and list of things he has done off the field make doing a little steroids in baseball look like recreational drug use!</p> So can anyone explain to me what qualifies him to be there?</p> Just asking...</p> Andy </p> </div></p> Hey aatencio,</p> Welcome to S2! Sure you'll enjoy it here!</p> -Petey</p>
Personally, I think that the Hall could have waited on this one. Perhaps put him in at a later time, if at all. There are superstars that came way before him that have still not made it in. Ray Guy, for example. I think I ranted about that one in another thread.</p> </p>
You can get into the football HOF without the numbers(you have no chance in baseball without them)....some guys are in that dont have anywhere close to HoF numbers(see Lynn Swann and Joe Namath)....and because they let guys in without the numbers, its really hard to argue against any guy that has them....Ray Guy will be in the Hall of Fame, its just a matter of time
Art Monk, Henry Ellard and Sterling Sharpe have comparable (or better) numbers than Irvin does. but no champsionships. I think it's a complete joke that Irvin is in, but the three rings go a long way.</p> What do you do? *shrugs*</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pack Attack)</div><div class='quotemain'> Art Monk, Henry Ellard and Sterling Sharpe have comparable (or better) numbers than Irvin does. but no champsionships. I think it's a complete joke that Irvin is in, but the three rings go a long way.</p> What do you do? *shrugs*</p> </div></p> Sharpe should be in before any of the above mentioned receivers. The guy could control a game from his position. The same can't be said for the other guys even though they had longer careers.</p> </p>
<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="3">The SB rings count heavily in that voting, and remember, except for the living Hall members, most of those votes come from people who've never owned a jock. So for them it's how many play off games and how many SB's. </font></p> <font face="Arial" size="3">The stats that are listed may as well be in sanskrit for the majority of the voters.</font></p>
Michael Irvin doesn't belong in the Hall? Now I've heard it all..</p> Maybe he didn't deserve to go in before Art Monk or other receivers, but to say he doesn't belong there period. That is a bold statement.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pack Attack)</div><div class='quotemain'> Art Monk, Henry Ellard and Sterling Sharpe have comparable (or better) numbers than Irvin does. but no champsionships. I think it's a complete joke that Irvin is in, but the three rings go a long way.</p> What do you do? *shrugs*</p> </div>I totaly agree Art and Sterling should go and thier character is much more important.</p> I have started a Petition for Sam Mills and inspirartion to all A caoch a player a father and a man.</p> his stats are good never been an a SB team but has the heart of a champion</p> http://www.petitiononline.com/SAM51/petition.html</p> </p> Perhaps a petition to allow the fans some input in the selection process would be in order?</p> </p>
Welcome Panther Phan....I think you will like it here....Sam Mills, at least early, got overshadowed by the other players he played with(like Swilling), but hes a solid candidate....Id have to go back and study his career a bit to decide if I think he would be in or not, but I wouldnt be surpised if he had a Hall of Fame career
well thank you. And yes I know he probably didn't have the best stats although they were very respectible (since he did not get drafted but had a good career in the USFL that should have been in the NFL). However I think it is time the fans voice thier opinion and lets start getting some people in the Hall with real character not just stats.Let's go by what they meant to the team, the NFL and the community (as a role model) as well as stats? </p> Ya know signing the petition is not a lock, it just shows you support the right type of person/ player</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ATLien)</div><div class='quotemain'> Michael Irvin doesn't belong in the Hall? Now I've heard it all..</p> Maybe he didn't deserve to go in before Art Monk or other receivers, but to say he doesn't belong there period. That is a bold statement. </p> </div></p> I have no love for Michael Irvin (hate the Cowboys), but I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be in the hall AT ALL. I just think there are a ton of guys who have been waiting for a long time who should have gotten in first. </p>
I think Irvin was a good player but not hof caliber. I could name 5 current nfl wrs easily i'd take over him. Moss,Owens,Smith,Harrison,Johnson.</p> I think Art monk should have made it this year, but i doubt he's ever gonna get in with the way things are going.</p>
Good point on the way things are going. Perhaps there should be a way to change the induction process to include fan voting i.e. Probowl.</p> Perhaps this would change some of the inductees. To have 40 guys vote? they could never get it right and since it is thephans that make the game continue, (not so much the PFWA). Besides we pay to attend games they get press passes? it would obviously be a difficult way to decide but in todays society and electronic age, I am sure there could be a way.</p> </p> AND YES CHARACTER needs to be a part of it!!!</p> </p> </p> <font color="#00008b"><a href="http://www.petitiononline.com/SAM51/petition.html" target="_blank">http://www.petitiononline.com/SAM51/petition.html</font></a></p>
I dunno.</p> I don't want the HOF to turn into a popularity contest like the Pro Bowl & All Star Game has become..</p>
So you are okay with the 40 memebers of the PFWA deciding who gets in? so 40 people who are being smoozed by teams are the deciding vote? why do we not discuss an alt. and decide a better process and then begin a campaign to change the process unless you have confidence in a PFWA member representing each city to make the right decision? and what the fans thinkis not important. I know it will be a touchy area however we should as fansget someinput and with todays technology it should be simple?Every year I here from people as to why so and so made it over whats his nameand it is because there are 40 memebers deciding. 40 people out of the entire football viewing world seems strange. especially for such an honor</p> And yes it is not a Hall of Character. Although with as many candidates that are out there </p> perhaps lets make that a catagory and it will make it easier to eleminate some and honor others?</p> I have signed for others such as Art Monk I was not a fan of his or Washington however he deserves to be there and I did sign his peition.</p> cause he was a great player and contribitor to the game with a great character</p> but the PFWA can not except it they over look the off the field character, with a new commish perhaps we can make the difference? </p> andWOW if we coud make a difference as a fan would that not be a good thing?</p> http://www.petitiononline.com/SAM51/petition.html </p> just one guy trying to make a difference? every vote counts!!!</p> </p> </p> </p> </p> </p>
So you are okay with the 40 memebers of the PFWA deciding who gets in? so 40 people who are being smoozed by teams are the deciding vote? why do we not discuss an alt. and decide a better process and then begin a campaign to change the process unless you have confidence in a PFWA member representing each city to make the right decision? and what the fans thinkis not important. I know it will be a touchy area however we should as fansget someinput and with todays technology it should be simple?Every year I here from people as to why so and so made it over whats his nameand it is because there are 40 memebers deciding. 40 people out of the entire football viewing world seems strange. especially for such an honor</p> And yes it is not a Hall of Character. Although with as many candidates that are out there </p> perhaps lets make that a catagory and it will make it easier to eleminate some and honor others?</p> I have signed for others such as Art Monk I was not a fan of his or Washington however he deserves to be there and I did sign his petition</p> cause he was a great player and contribitor to the game with a great character</p> but the PFWA can not except it they over look the off the field character, with a new commish perhaps we can make the difference? </p> andWOW if we coud make a difference as a fan would that not be a good thing?</p> http://www.petitiononline.com/SAM51/petition.html </p> just one guy trying to make a difference? every vote counts!!!</p> </p> </p> </p> </p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aatencio)</div><div class='quotemain'> So I am still trying to figure out how exactly it is that a player like Michael Irving makes it into the Hall of Fame. Here is a guy that only had one season in his entire carreer that he led the NFL in anything, and it wasn't even his best year which shows how weak the recieving that year must have been. Only one season where he caught more than 100 passes, only one season where he caught double digit TDs. He isn't in the top 10 in any recieving category. Only the 14th best in yards, 20th (t) best in receptions, and all the way down to 37th in TDs. He made the Pro Bowl five times, but that is less than half the seasons he played. He was on a team that one three Super Bowls, but personally he only averaged 85 yards per the three games and only scored a total of two TDs. Oh yeah and list of things he has done off the field make doing a little steroids in baseball look like recreational drug use!</p> So can anyone explain to me what qualifies him to be there?</p> Just asking...</p> Andy </p></div> For the amount of times Troy Aikman threw the ball per season, Michael Irvin amassed amazing stats (Look at Aikman's passing attempts).</p> </p> That is a shallow comprehension of statistics aatencio.</p>
