<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">New poll of the top 25 NBA players as voted on by the NBA GM's is in the new Sporting News: 1. Shaq 2. Kobe 3. Duncan 4. McGrady 5. Garnett 6. Kidd 7. Webber 8. Nowitzki 9. Pierce 10. Iverson 11. Jermain O'neal 12. Payton 13. Francis 14. Carter 15. Nash 16. Jordan 17. Wallace 18. Ray Allen 19. Marbury 20. Malone 21. Marion 22. Baron Davis 23. Yao 24. Stockton 25. Finley </div> http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.p...8745&forum=1&72
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Shaq still the immovable object among NBA's best By Sean Deveney - Sporting News Someday, in the near future, the NBA will play a brand of basketball that almost completely leaves the traditional back-to-the-basket center out of the mix. As 7-footers are plucked from the ranks of high school, Europe and, heck, even China, the emphasis increasingly is on versatility -- passing skill, shooting range, athleticism. The game will evolve along with it, and low-post centers will be left behind. Ah, but for now, there is one stalwart of the old guard who is clutching to the traditions of the really, really tall in the NBA. That's self-proclaimed "dinosaur" Shaquille O'Neal. As long as Shaq is in the league (he's signed through 2006, folks), the evolution of the pro game will be on hold. No matter how much speed, skill and athleticism a team has collected, O'Neal still is the 350-pound road block to a championship. Moving that road block out of the way has proved impossible. With that in mind, it is little surprise O'Neal is, yet again, No. 1 on the Sporting News' top 25 players list, constructed through a poll of 15 of the league's general managers. Basketball is changing, and many of the players on this list are the ones who will be leading the charge. But it's still Shaq's league. As one of the voters says, "We have a completely different breed of player coming into the league right now. But Shaq is old school. We can't get to new-school as long as he is around." 1. Shaquille O'Neal C, Lakers So big is O'Neal that, a few years back, he had to call a shoe manufacturer in Italy and persuade the proprietor -- financially, of course -- to alter his machinery to accommodate the size 22s the Big Fashion Plate requires. In the minds of NBA general managers, O'Neal remains that big, even as his body begins to falter and, with his 31st birthday next week, as he moves toward the downside of his career. O'Neal missed 15 games last season and already has missed 15 this season. He has had problems with both ankles, his back, his big toe and, now, his mysteriously aching left knee. Still, he is, by far, the most coveted player to the league's general managers, ranking No. 1 or 2 on every ballot cast. 2. Kobe Bryant SG, Lakers "He's the closest to M.J. when it comes to talent and determination," one Eastern Conference GM states. Certainly, Bryant's body control on moves to the basket and on his fallaway jumper ignites Michael Jordan comparisons. Bryant is beginning to look like Jordan in the stats column, too, putting together a streak of eight games with 40 or more points, and 12 straight with at least 35, something even Jordan would consider an accomplishment. And remember, we still should talk about Bryant in terms of potential -- he is only 24. 3. Tim Duncan PF, Spurs In some ways, Duncan still is the shy, oddball fellow from the Virgin Islands who speared fish as a kid, whose high school coach thought he was too timid to play prep basketball and who used to toss knives as a hobby while a student at Wake Forest. It shows in his game, which is not given to the wanton acts of crowd-pleasing that motivate highlight hams throughout the league. Proper rebounding position, solid defense and 10-foot bank shots don't bring standing ovations the way chest-thumping dunks do, but they did bring last year's MVP award, and they got the attention of the game's intelligentsia -- Duncan was neck-and-neck with Bryant in our vote. 4. Tracy McGrady SG, Magic Just one week after Bryant and his wife had their first child, Natalia Diamante, McGrady and his fiancee had Layla Clarice, the couple's first child. Not only did Natalia best Layla by a week, she also outweighed her by 5 ounces. Such is life for McGrady, it seems -- always a half-step behind Bryant. The two are, arguably, the league's most exciting players, and the McGrady-vs.-Bryant debate is an NBA fan's staple. Off the court, the two are friends. They work out together over the summer, with McGrady learning to put aside his easygoing nature to develop a Bryant-like work ethic. That has been the biggest factor in McGrady's surge to the MVP level. He has been at the top of the league's scoring rankings for most of the season, but as always, Bryant is making a push to best McGrady. Bryant has climbed to just 0.5 points per game behind. 5. Kevin Garnett SF, Timberwolves It dogs Garnett constantly -- and even as he lands among the top five in this poll, two GMs are quick to point out the obvious -- that Garnett has failed to lead the Timberwolves out of the first round of the playoffs in six tries. Garnett's postseason numbers (19.5 points, 11.8 rebounds, 4.9 assists) are better than his regular-season stats, but the Timberwolves are just 5-18 in the playoffs in Garnett's career. Still, he is a solid candidate for the MVP award this year, as he has improved his play in the post while still taking advantage of his passing and his shooting range from 18 feet. Garnett is an impossible matchup, playing small forward at 6-11, and is one of the best defenders in the league, capable of blocking shots close to the basket, pressing fullcourt or getting out on the perimeter to guard small forwards. 6. Jason Kidd PG, Nets As teammate Kerry Kittles told reporters earlier this season, "Jason Kidd is freaky. There are only a couple of guys in this league that are freaky like him." What is freaky is the way Kidd has brought a collection of decent talent to a level well beyond the sum of its parts. He has a second-year small forward (Richard Jefferson), a developing third-year power forward (Kenyon Martin), a gimpy shooting guard (Kittles) and, well, something resembling a center (Jason Collins and Aaron Williams) around him. After getting the Nets to The Finals last year, Kidd has his team atop the Atlantic Division again. As three GMs commented, "He makes everyone on his team better." 7. Chris Webber PF, Kings Webber is hounded by the same sort of "can't-win-the-big-game" negativity that haunts Garnett. But without question, it is the presence of Webber that has allowed the Kings to flourish with their fast-paced, quick-screening offense. "Everyone would like to run the kind of motion the Kings do," says one assistant coach. "But not everyone has Webber." He and teammate Peja Stojakovic have an eerie feel for each other that makes them almost impossible to stop because the team does not need to call a play to get Stojakovic open. Webber's ability to think through the game, pass like a point guard, hit midrange jumpers and score in the post makes him the most important cog in the Kings' well-oiled machine. 8. Dirk Nowitzki PF, Mavericks So how do you handle a 7-0 player who has the green light from any spot on the court, without regard for silly nuisances such as the shot clock and the positioning of offensive rebounders? "The best way to guard him," says one GM, "is to hope he misses." Problem is, he doesn't miss much. Nowitzki shoots 46.8 percent from the field, mostly from the perimeter. What is most impressive about him is that, though his shot gets all the attention, he has worked hard to improve other areas. He has a long way to go defensively, but he has boosted his shot blocking (1.2 per game), steals (1.4) and assists (2. this season. 9. Paul Pierce SG, Celtics Two GMs say Pierce "shoots too much." One other says Pierce is "selfish, but a great scorer." Maybe so, but the selfishness is by design, at the behest of coach Jim O'Brien. Pierce is a fearless penetrator who regularly is roughed up by opposing defenses. He goes to the free-throw line more than any player in the league and probably should go more often. He is the Celtics' first option for clutch shots, and though his shooting is way down from his career average, he is averaging career highs in points, rebounds and assists. 10. Allen Iverson SG, 76ers He is only 6-0, 165 pounds; he shoots 40.4 percent from the field; he is an intermittent absentee when it comes to practice; and he has had a series of embarrassing off-court antics. "The size works against him, and the off-court aspects hurt him," says one GM. "But he is such a super competitor." That spirit of competition -- in addition to his remarkable athleticism and talent when it comes to getting off shots in impossible situations -- is enough to get Iverson into the top 10. No one keeps a bruise-per-game stat, but if someone did, it's a safe bet Iverson would lead the league. 11. Jermaine O'Neal PF, Pacers When the playoffs begin, the Pacers will have one luxury no other team in the East has -- a quality big man who can play both ends of the floor. O'Neal is a great help defender, averaging 2.2 blocks per game, and gives the Pacers length and agility down low. The Pacers call on Reggie Miller when they need a 3-pointer in the clutch, but O'Neal gets the ball when they need only two points. He has a midrange jumper and strong post moves and is an underrated passer. "He's improving every aspect," one GM says. 12. Gary Payton PG, Bucks No point guard has as much body control as Payton, able to throw off opponents with his herky-jerky drives forward and sudden stops. He still can knock down the ugly fallaway jumper that has been his security blanket, and he is by far the best post-up point guard in the game -- and now the best post player the Bucks have. His defense may be heavier on reputation than on reality, but he's still one of the league's smarter backcourt defenders. "If I had to win one game," says one voter, "I'd want Payton as my point guard." 13. Steve Francis PG, Rockets With the right diet and careful monitoring, Francis has tamed the frightful migraine headaches that torpedoed his season last year. He has taken the reins of a young, inconsistent team that still is struggling to find its way, and he has the Rockets in playoff contention. As Houston begins to establish itself as a playoff force, Francis' stock will rise. 14. Vince Carter SG, Raptors Though two serious knee injuries have diluted Carter's reputation with fans and the media, GMs know he is potentially one of the league's top talents. The knee problems may forever eliminate the jaw-dropping dunks that once secured Carter's popularity, but he still is a dangerous scorer. Since he returned from his latest injury, the woebegone Raptors have managed a 7-3 record. 15. Steve Nash PG, Mavericks Nash is a soccer player at heart -- his father actually played pro soccer in South Africa, where Nash was born. There is a bit of soccer in the younger Nash's game, too, with the way he pushes the ball as though his mop-top hair were on fire, throwing up scoop shots over 7-foot centers or flipping from-the-hip passes in midair. He creates the hectic atmosphere in which the Mavericks thrive. 16. Michael Jordan SF, Wizards Didn't Jordan and the Wizards promise he would take it easy this season, after last season ended with knee surgery? But here is Jordan, at age 40, averaging more minutes this year (35.5) than last (34.9). In the Wizards' 13 back-to-backs, Jordan has played more minutes on the second night than on the first eight times. "I don't think he knows how to take it easy," one GM says. 17. Rasheed Wallace PF, Trail Blazers Wallace is not the leader the Blazers would like him to be, and there's little chance that will change. But Wallace has corralled his penchant for technical fouls -- the seven-game suspension for allegedly threatening a referee notwithstanding -- and his on-court demeanor is no longer a distraction. His outside shooting makes him a difficult matchup, but he is most effective when he is willing to work in the post and get to the free-throw line. 18. Ray Allen SG, SuperSonics Allen is best known as the player who comes closest to perfect form on his jump shot, but his game is more varied than that. Problem is, he has been slowed by knee and ankle injuries that have limited his defense and ability to drive to the basket. He slowly has been rounding into shape and, at age 27, now is being called upon to lead the Sonics' rebuilding effort. 19. Stephon Marbury PG, Suns The leadership and toughness shown by Marbury this season have rescued his sullied reputation around the league and have caused many to reconsider that Kidd-for-Marbury trade of two summers ago -- especially if Kidd bolts as a free agent this summer. Marbury turned 26 last week and is just hitting his prime. One GM speculates, "He might wind up being the best point guard in the league, when all is said and done." 20. Karl Malone PF, Jazz He's as timeless as the pick-and-roll, and anyone who says he is too old to be effective has not felt the brunt of a barrel-chested Malone screen lately. He'll turn 40 this summer, and yet, as each month has passed this season, Malone has been getting better. He has increased his shooting percentage and scoring average and again has the Jazz in prime playoff position. 21. Shawn Marion SF, Suns One prescient GM, casting a vote for Marion, says, "He should be in the top 15. I guarantee he will be ranked too low, though." Good call. Marion continues to shine in relative obscurity despite being one of the league's best midrange shooters, rebounders and defensive players. 22. Baron Davis PG, Hornets Davis was dominant in the postseason last year, outdueling McGrady in a great first-round matchup. That gave a glimpse of Davis' capabilities, but a chronic back problem and now knee surgery have prevented him from building on his success. 23. Yao Ming C, Rockets Yes, Yao. He is the only rookie to receive votes and the only center besides Shaquille O'Neal. Two of the GMs who voted for Yao acknowledged that they were doing so based on potential more than current production. Indeed, when the game moves away from Shaq's old-school style of center play, it will be Yao who sets the new-school definition. 24. John Stockton PG, Jazz Stockton may not look the part, but most opponents would count him as the league's most underhanded player. He cheats, but he does it well. "He knows what he can get away with, and he gets away with it," one GM says. "Drives everyone crazy, unless you're on his team." Stockton probably would take that as a compliment. Going on age 41, he needs all the help he can get. 25. Michael Finley SG, Mavericks Where the Mavericks usually play with sizzle and flair, it's Finley who provides the meat of the team's attack. He is a good defender, a leader and a reliable scorer, and, as one voter says, "Dallas would be nowhere without him." </div> http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=shaq...v=tsn&type=lgns
Why is Pierce ahead of Allen? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He is only 6-0, 165 pounds; he shoots 40.4 percent from the field; he is an intermittent absentee when it comes to practice; <u>and he has had a series of embarrassing off-court antics</u>. "The size works against him, and the off-court aspects hurt him," says one GM. "But he is such a super competitor." That spirit of competition -- in addition to his remarkable athleticism and talent when it comes to getting off shots in impossible situations -- is enough to get Iverson into the top 10. No one keeps a bruise-per-game stat, but if someone did, it's a safe bet Iverson would lead the league. </div> I wish the off-court stuff wouldn't be involved when talking about a player. It's dumb, their personal lives should not be involved. Pitiful as that is the only excuse that he is so far down on that list.
those rankings r horrible let's make our own.... 1. KG 2. Kobe 3. T-Mac 4. Shaq 5. Allen 6. Marion 7. Francis 8. Payton 9. Wallace 10. Marbury 11. Finley 12. Masburn 13. Stoudemire 14. J-Rich 15. Nash 16. Nowitzki 17. Gooden 18. Duncan 19. Iverson 20. Antoine Walker 21. C Webb 22. Bobby Jackson 23. Kidd 24. Pierce, he hasn't done a lot this season 25. MARK MADSEN, he's my Cinderella pick what do ya think? Yeah my rankings aren't the best so make yours accordingly and we can compare
maybe becuz the rookies r playing better than the veterans.....but hell what does anyone care, it's my opinion against urs, if u don't like mine make ur own smart one
here are mine 1. T-Mac 2. KG 3. Kobe 4. Kidd 5. Duncan 6. Shaq 7. Dirk 8. JO 9. Big Ben 10. B-Diddy 11. Francis 12. Webber 13. Ray Allen 14. AI 15. Payton 16. Sheed 17. Marbury 18. MJ 19. Brand 20. Marion 21. Carter 22. Nash 23. Finley 24. Malone 25. J-Tins11
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "pchotsauce":</div><div class="quote_post">those rankings r horrible let's make our own.... 1. KG 2. Kobe 3. T-Mac 4. Shaq 5. Allen 6. Marion 7. Francis 8. Payton 9. Wallace 10. Marbury 11. Finley 12. Masburn 13. Stoudemire 14. J-Rich 15. Nash 16. Nowitzki 17. Gooden 18. Duncan 19. Iverson 20. Antoine Walker 21. C Webb 22. Bobby Jackson 23. Kidd 24. Pierce, he hasn't done a lot this season 25. MARK MADSEN, he's my Cinderella pick what do ya think? Yeah my rankings aren't the best so make yours accordingly and we can compare</div> Dude...Stoudemire and Gooden over Kidd (who should be Top 5, not 23), Webber (Top 10), and Duncan?!!!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "pchotsauce":</div><div class="quote_post">maybe becuz the rookies r playing better than the veterans.....but hell what does anyone care, it's my opinion against urs, if u don't like mine make ur own smart one</div> Too lazy.
Here is mine top 10 I am too lazy for top 25 1 Shaq 2 TD 3 Kobe 4 T Mac 5 KG 6 Kidd 7 Dirk 8 C Webb 9 Pierce 10 AI Shaq and TD are #1 and #2 becuase you can't teach the size.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Just one week after Bryant and his wife had their first child, Natalia Diamante, McGrady and his fiancee had Layla Clarice, the couple's first child. Not only did Natalia best Layla by a week, she also outweighed her by 5 ounces. Such is life for McGrady, it seems -- always a half-step behind Bryant. The two are, arguably, the league's most exciting players, and the McGrady-vs.-Bryant debate is an NBA fan's staple. Off the court, the two are friends. They work out together over the summer, with McGrady learning to put aside his easygoing nature to develop a Bryant-like work ethic. That has been the biggest factor in McGrady's surge to the MVP level. He has been at the top of the league's scoring rankings for most of the season, but as always, Bryant is making a push to best McGrady. Bryant has climbed to just 0.5 points per game behind. </div> Wow. I knew they were friends but I had no idea they practiced together. That would explain the similarities in their games and how good they both are. There potential is also greater than any players in the league ... which is probably the real reason I would take them over a big man any day. You just get the feeling on of them or both of them is going to evolve into something the game has never seen.
here's my top 15 1. td 2. tmac 3. kg 4. kobe 5. shaq 6. kidd 7. dirk 8. pp 9. c webb 10. franchise 11. big ben 12. ray allen 13. marion 14. starbury 15. gary payton
yeah i pretty much agree with sportsrock ya know since Kobe has become "Team Leader" :? Shaq has been suckin' i've seen most of his games like 17/8 that's not top10 material face it either Shaq or Kobe will have to suck. it was Kobe for 3 years. :cry: Now Shaq for 1.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "PacersRule":</div><div class="quote_post">yeah i pretty much agree with sportsrock ya know since Kobe has become "Team Leader" :? Shaq has been suckin' i've seen most of his games like 17/8 that's not top10 material face it either Shaq or Kobe will have to suck. it was Kobe for 3 years. :cry: Now Shaq for 1. </div> Shaq or Kobe will have to suck? They are top 5 players like 3 last years. They are great,how can you say that they suck? That's stupid,there is no chance in hell that you can back that up Shaq and Kobe are both top 5 material. Maybe even top 2 material. Shaq is still the best becuasse he's most dominant. You can't teach size!!!! Kobe is the best player out there!! He can do anything,he can score like 35 points with ease. He can do anything you want,he is clutch,he's the best all around player out there. Hate them all you want but they are the best!!
i don't wanna agrue anymore i'm not gonna post anything on Shaq or Kobe vs. T-Mac for a while i've voiced my opinion and like it or not urs doesn't matter to me
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "pchotsauce":</div><div class="quote_post">those rankings r horrible let's make our own.... 1. KG 2. Kobe 3. T-Mac 4. Shaq 5. Allen 6. Marion 7. Francis 8. Payton 9. Wallace 10. Marbury 11. Finley 12. Masburn 13. Stoudemire 14. J-Rich 15. Nash 16. Nowitzki 17. Gooden 18. Duncan 19. Iverson 20. Antoine Walker 21. C Webb 22. Bobby Jackson 23. Kidd 24. Pierce, he hasn't done a lot this season 25. MARK MADSEN, he's my Cinderella pick what do ya think? Yeah my rankings aren't the best so make yours accordingly and we can compare</div> Hey where is Jermaine?
